Cautionary Tale--dodging the bullet | High Sierra Topix  

Cautionary Tale--dodging the bullet

How do you prepare for the rigorous physical requirements of high elevation adventure? Strength and endurance are key, but are only part of a more complex equation. How do you prepare for changes in altitude, exposure, diet, etc.? How do you mentally prepare? Learn from others and share what you know about training in advance for outdoor adventures.
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Re: Cautionary Tale--dodging the bullet

Postby rlown » Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:36 pm

I do know my lil procedure for the cardio cath will cost me 1750 out of pocket. even with insurance. it was kind of funny.. i heard it was an 18k procedure, then a 24k procedure and as of billing it was a 28k procedure.. for 20 mins under. and they do this everyday. I have to ask where is that cost coming from? are we paying the docs and nurses 401k's?



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Re: Cautionary Tale--dodging the bullet

Postby Wandering Daisy » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:20 pm

The cost is coming from all the free care given to the uninsured, under-paid care given for medicare, profits for all the "middle-men", investors and lawyers needed when hospitals and insurance companies argue over the costs. I have to buy my own insurance. If any of those polititians had to buy their own insurance there would be national health care in a minute! My daughter and husband are doctors and although they make a good wage they are not the ones getting rich. All prices are arbitrary, based on how much they can squeeze out of you.
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Re: Cautionary Tale--dodging the bullet

Postby Cross Country » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:34 pm

One doesn't have to have a degree in economics (I do) to see the wisdom in what WD wrote. As long as politicians and big business can convince (dupe) people to believe we're better off without national health care, abuses and gross inefficiencies will abound in really HUGE ways.
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Re: Cautionary Tale--dodging the bullet

Postby rlown » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:39 pm

enough money talk.. how should we act around people with stents? any prep? what do we need to know to stabilize in case of a shift or a problem..
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Re: Cautionary Tale--dodging the bullet

Postby quentinc » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:41 pm

Sorry Russ....
But to add to what Daisy points out:

Drug companies, drug companies, drug companies and drug companies. Every try paying for a brand name prescription without insurance? And hospitals, surgery centers, etc., have to pass on the costs. "Big pharma" is a force of nature. Health reform (even if it survives) could never have gotten passed in the first place without a policy of appeasement towards these behemoths. There is no attempt at all by Medicare to limit what they can charge.
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Re: Cautionary Tale--dodging the bullet

Postby RoguePhotonic » Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:56 pm

I'm not defending the drug companies at all but the cost is not all about run away greed. The massive amount of regulations and taxes imposed on companies make it difficult to charge anything but very high prices. It's bad enough for any business but it's hard to imagine what drug companies must go through.

Although on the subject of greed there is a reason the drug companies were huge supporters of Obamacare. They are going to really make it big when they can charge the Government what ever they want.
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Re: Cautionary Tale--dodging the bullet

Postby oldranger » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:37 pm

Da Rogue?

Do you not think the drug companies are getting what they want now in the US? Why can we visit our neighbors to the North and get the same drugs for much cheaper? I have an uncle that would love to move back to the US where it is a little warmer but can't afford the the cost of medical care here.

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Re: Cautionary Tale--dodging the bullet

Postby quentinc » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:34 pm

Actually, the drug companies wouldn't claim the cost of regulation is the reason (it's a very small amount compared to what they charge). They would claim it's needed to recoup their research & development costs. That and all the advertising they do to persuade people to beg their doctors for drugs that often do more harm than good.

And, Rogue, Obamacare just keeps the status quo for drug prices. If Obama had tried to cap drug prices, the pharmaceutical industry would have killed health reform from day one.
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Re: Cautionary Tale--dodging the bullet

Postby Jimr » Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:31 pm

"Big pharma" is a force of nature.


A greater force than most can even imagine.

If you wanna have some real fun, just google

"big pharma and homeland security act"

or google this

"ely lily thimerosal"

Have fun.
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Re: Cautionary Tale--dodging the bullet

Postby dave54 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:17 pm

quentinc wrote:Actually, the drug companies wouldn't claim the cost of regulation is the reason (it's a very small amount compared to what they charge). They would claim it's needed to recoup their research & development costs ...


True.

The drug companies try hundreds, if not thousands of compounds, before they find one that shows promise. They file for a patent, which is good for 17 years. Then they start testing it. Once they have figured out efficacy, dosages, etc, they petition the FDA to begin clinical trials. The trials can take many years and cost millions of dollars. If the trials are successful, then they petition the FDA for approval, and there is no guarantee the FDA will approve. They may reject entirely, or demand additional trials. Meanwhile the patent time limit is still in effect. The companies have already spent tens to hundreds of millions of dollars, there is maybe 5-6 years left on the patent, and they have not yet sold a single dose. Once the patent expires, any company can make a generic version of the drug without having to pay a penny to the original company for all the R&D. So the original company must recover all the costs within the few years left on the patent. How about starting the patent clock as soon as the FDA approves it? that would give the company more time to recover R&D so the drug could be offered at a lower cost.

Johnson and Johnson has an anesthetic ( I cannot remember the name) approved for in-utero surgery on a fetus. Regular anesthetics cannot be used because of the danger to the baby. There is still a risk to the baby, and if the baby is born with any defect or health problem at all, you can be sure J&J will be sued whether the anesthetic had anything to do with the problem at all. This anesthetic is incredibly expensive, and 99.5% of the cost is litigation reserve in anticipation they will be sued sometime over this anesthetic. Canada has different laws regarding suing drug manufacturers, so the same anesthetic is a fraction of the cost in Canada.
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Re: Cautionary Tale--dodging the bullet

Postby Jimr » Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:13 pm

I don't know if accounting principles have changed, but it used to be that R&D was expensed when incurred. Judging from the lack of intangible assets (zero) on Ely Lilly & Co. and Merck & Co. balance sheets, but an R & D expense roughly 16 to 20% of operational revenue, I'd say their R & D costs are expensed regardless of whether anything comes of it or not. Furthermore, I'd be inclined to say that their marketing costs are small compared to R & D. R & D is roughly 65% of marketing and general and administrative expense combined and roughly the same as the cost of product sold.
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Re: Cautionary Tale--dodging the bullet

Postby oldranger » Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:30 pm

Now 1 year later--still hiking, cross country skiing, volunteering, chasing my wife around the house (and actually catching her now that she has a foot in a cast!). Planning 6 weeks in the Sierra, one week in the Eagle Cap Wilderness and 10 days in Boundary waters--no reason to slow down!

Mike

Oh yeah out of pocket expenses were greater for my wifes outpatient foot surgery because the surgicenter was a Tier 2 facility rather than Tier 1 (our local hospital) than for my stent.
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