Offer to resupply - JMT mile 88 (Vermillion) - with a catch | High Sierra Topix  

Offer to resupply - JMT mile 88 (Vermillion) - with a catch

All discussion related to transportation to, from and within the Sierra Nevada. Need directions or flight information? Info on road conditions? A ride to the trail head? Can you offer a ride, or do you run a transportation business or shuttle service for the Sierra Nevada? Come on in and post the details!
User avatar

Offer to resupply - JMT mile 88 (Vermillion) - with a catch

Postby JohnCurranLadd » Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:29 am

If there are 2 or more of you hiking south on the JMT this summer, we might make a co-operative deal meeting both our re-supply needs.

I plan to solo hike round trip from JMT mile 88 (Lake Edison - Vermilion Valley Resort) to mile 167 (Woods Creek) and back this summer. My dates are flexible, though I'd prefer to start late June or early July.

At my age (63), I'm expecting the round trip to take 2 weeks and I'd rather not carry all that food. I'd love someone to carry 7 lbs of food and fuel from Vermilion and leave it for me in one of the Woods Creek bearboxes.

In return, I could resupply you at Vermillion if you mail or deliver to me (in San Francisco) whatever you want to pick up there. For example, if you are thru-hiking the entire JMT in 12 days, you could leave Yosemite Valley with a 5-day supply of food and let me bring you the remaining 7 days of food at Vermillion.

JohnLadd@gmail.com (Trailname: The Sicilian)
Last edited by JohnCurranLadd on Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.



User avatar
JohnCurranLadd
Topix Novice
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:11 am
Location: San Francisco, CA
Experience: N/A

User avatar

Re: Offer to resupply you at JMT mile 88 (Vermillion) - with a c

Postby BSquared » Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:15 am

JohnCurranLadd wrote:.. For example, if you are thru-hiking the entire JMT in 12 days, you could leave Yosemite Valley with a 5-day supply of food and let me bring you the remaining 7 days of food at Vermillion


If you're doing that, you want jet fuel, not food!

-B2
User avatar
BSquared
Founding Member
 
Posts: 871
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:31 pm
Location: Jericho, VT
Experience: Level 3 Backpacker

User avatar

Re: Offer to resupply you at JMT mile 88 (Vermillion) - with a c

Postby JohnCurranLadd » Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:29 am

BSquared wrote:
JohnCurranLadd wrote:.. For example, if you are thru-hiking the entire JMT in 12 days, you could leave Yosemite Valley with a 5-day supply of food and let me bring you the remaining 7 days of food at Vermillion


If you're doing that, you want jet fuel, not food!

-B2


12 days on JMT is 18 miles per day. I wouldn't do it at my age, but lots of people do.
User avatar
JohnCurranLadd
Topix Novice
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:11 am
Location: San Francisco, CA
Experience: N/A

User avatar

Re: Offer to resupply you at JMT mile 88 (Vermillion) - with a c

Postby BSquared » Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:48 am

I guess you're right, but I've always thought of two weeks as kind of a practical minimum for people who want to hike it as opposed to fast-walking it. However like you, I grew up long before the ultra-light era (I'm your age). We're doing it in three weeks this summer (Good Lord willin' and the crick don't rise -- but not at the right time to make use of your kind offer), and that's plenty fast, IMHO.

-B²
User avatar
BSquared
Founding Member
 
Posts: 871
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:31 pm
Location: Jericho, VT
Experience: Level 3 Backpacker

User avatar

Re: Offer to resupply you at JMT mile 88 (Vermillion) - with a c

Postby markskor » Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:55 am

Having done the Muir multiple times, and from both directions, I have the utmost admiration for those who can do it in under 2 weeks.
That being said, my last time took me 30 days...not any rush and many free days unscheduled/ scheduled in for serendipity. Of all my backpacking trips, still consider it the best trip I ever did.
Mountainman who swims with trout
User avatar
markskor
Founding Member & Forums Administrator
Founding Member & Forums Administrator
 
Posts: 2048
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:41 pm
Location: Mammoth Lakes
Experience: Level 4 Explorer

User avatar

Re: Offer to resupply you at JMT mile 88 (Vermillion) - with a c

Postby fishmonger » Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:57 am

the trail has been done in 4 days, 5 hours, and 25 minutes, so things are all relative to how you like to enjoy the place. I found that a 10-12 day pace works best for me - I get bored sitting around longer than a few hours anywhere. I'm not the "camping type," I don't care for fishing either. I'm not a trail runner nor an ultralight fanatic - I just like to take photos on the hike, and since I've seen the trail so many times, I only stop for the really cool stuff when the light is dramatic.

With my kids, I do the trail in about 14-15 days without counting rest days. That's a fine speed for shorter legs. Anything that takes more than 20 days becomes a logistic problem on the southern half of the trail, because your food load increases so much that you suddenly get even slower so you need even more food, and you get even slower...
User avatar
fishmonger
Topix Expert
 
Posts: 946
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:27 am
Location: Madison, WI
Experience: Level 4 Explorer

User avatar

Re: Offer to resupply you at JMT mile 88 (Vermillion) - with a c

Postby BSquared » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:08 am

Hey, Fishmonger, thanks for chiming in. I think we're hijacking JohnCurranLadd's thread a bit here, but it's an interesting discussion so I'm hoping John won't mind.

How do you organize your hiking days? I usually use the old standby estimate of 2 mph plus 1/2 hour for every thousand feet climbed, so for me it would take 9-10 hours of actual walking each day to make the requisite 18-20 mile days for a 10-12 day JMT trip. (I actually walk a little fast than that, but it also takes me a little more than 1/2 hour to climb a thousand feet, so it works out.) I typically rest 10 minutes or so each hour, so that adds at least another hour. Add in a lunch stop (with a quick dip in the stream, at least for my shirt;), and I think I'd have to start hiking as soon as the sun was up and not stop until sunset to make that kind of distance. Doesn't leave much time for cooking breakfast or dinner! But you manage to do this with kids, and they obviously like it since they're doing it again! :thumbsup: How do you do it?

I'm really looking forward to the prospect of running into the three you out there some place this summer, if we're not too out of breath to talk. :(

-B
User avatar
BSquared
Founding Member
 
Posts: 871
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:31 pm
Location: Jericho, VT
Experience: Level 3 Backpacker

User avatar

Re: Offer to resupply you at JMT mile 88 (Vermillion) - with a c

Postby JohnCurranLadd » Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:31 pm

Yes - you have hijacked my thread. But it is interesting and I guessed I asked for it by responding to the comment about "jet fuel".

I figure 2 mph plus one hour for every 1000 feet of elevation gain. That estimate includes brief stops, but not longer stops (like a cooked meal). It's a little conservative, but for me it never is far off.

I've evolved a pacing that works for me as a solo (nobody else seems to like it). I get up about 1/2 hour before sunrise and try to leave camp shortly after sunrise. I eat a light (uncooked) snack before leaving.

I try to cover something approaching either half my distance or half my elevation change by 10 am, when I stop for a cooked breakfast. Cream of wheat mixed 50-50 with almond meal and a lot of butter oil (butter with the water boiled out), left at a boil for 30-60 seconds and steeped for an added 5. And maybe some bacon.

I take it very easy during the rest of the day, usually stopping for a snack (maybe peanut butter, field-mixed hummus, taco shells) around 1 pm and for a cooked dinner about 4:00 to 4:30. (something like rice or couscous with dried beans, hard dry sausage and lots of fat or oil)

I then hike in the cool of the evening to a dry campsite (does not require water or a fire ring since I'm not cooking a meal there) at about 30 minutes before sunset. I have something to eat with calories-fat (usually chocolate and nuts) just before getting into the sleeping bag. The snack seems to help me keep warm in the bag.

This way I cover a lot of my distance in the two prettiest times of the day - early morning and early evening. And I get to take it easy during the hot part of the day. And it is pretty easy to cover 12+ miles per day that way, since it is typically gives me at least 8 hours of hiking time even if I take several long stops during the day.

BTW, does anybody know of another site where I could post proposals like my original one for re-supply swaps (or car shuttle swaps) for the JMT?

John
User avatar
JohnCurranLadd
Topix Novice
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:11 am
Location: San Francisco, CA
Experience: N/A

User avatar

Re: Offer to resupply you at JMT mile 88 (Vermillion) - with a c

Postby fishmonger » Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:51 pm

BSquared wrote:Hey, Fishmonger, thanks for chiming in. I think we're hijacking JohnCurranLadd's thread a bit here, but it's an estimate of 2 mph plus 1/2 hour for every thousand feet climbed, so for me it would take 9-10 hours of actual walking each day to make the requisite 18-20 mile days for a 10-12 day JMT trip.
-B


without kids, I usually am awake before there is enough light to do much, but that's fine for breakfast. Start walking around 7am is the norm, but I've managed to be on my way earlier (one night in '89 a bear woke me up at 4am, never got back to sleep, so we were moving before 6am).

We probably managed 3+mph in those days, up or downhill doesn't really matter that much on the Muir Trail where most grades are built for horses. I prefer to walk without stopping unless it involves a significant break, either to eat second breakfast, lunch, pm snack. Cooking the main meal comes close to the end of the day. Setting up camp around 8pm is usually the goal. In July that means there are probably 11+ hours of walking time available, allowing for 25-30 miles a day. I've done a 42 mile day once, but that included the full moon, extending hiking hours until 3am :unibrow:

With the kids, it's different. First off, they need a lot of sleep, much more than I do. So I wake up first, get my stuff packed as far as I can before breakfast, start making food. They wake up for a hot breakfast around 6:30am the earliest, and I don't recall them ever being ready to walk before 8am. However, if they have a goal, they can surprise you - below picture is in the Muir Pass Hut, where we arrived at 9:15pm the night before, wearing our headlights, 19.5 miles of hiking and 3300 vertical feet before that, including a 2 hour break fishing at Evolution Lake. That day we averaged about 2.5 miles/hour all the way up to the pass from the bottom of Goddard Canyon.

Image

That was our biggest day last year, but they had the energy to pull through to the pass once they saw the hut in the last sunlight as we arrived at Wanda Lake. I could barely keep up with them after that.

They needed a lot of breaks, too. Last year we were usually sitting around just as much as we were walking. According to the GPS, our moving time was about 6-7 hours each day, with 5-7 hours of resting time (side note - I used GPS data to motivate them - $0.01 for each vertical foot gained per day - they each made a lot of cash...). The goal for this year is to shift one hour from our resting time average to moving time, which will give us an additonal 3 miles/day boost, which over the distance means saving about 4 hiking days, in return that allows us to cut back the food load, allowing for more speed, which makes it easier to walk the extra hour. I think they are starting to understand what I mean by "go slower but don't stop for the next 2 hours and you will get further down the trail."

Another thing with us is that we usually need 2-3 days to get up to our target speed. The first days are always slow, because you don't want to push too hard when the body isn't used to the constant effort it is being asked to endure. At the end of the hike we probably will be doing much longer distances as the finish line has that magic attraction the closer you get to it. I actually anticipate to do the return route on the yo-yo at least one day faster than the southbound route, just beacuse we do usually get "in shape" as we go, but also because you mentally adjust to the "walking thing" after so many miles and it just becomes something you do, rather than something you want to take breaks from.

This year, the kids know what they are up against, and most of all, they own the goal - it was their idea to go and do the yo-yo, so I have a feeling the motivation part should be easier.

To get back to the resupply, and to not totally hijack this thread for a different subject - here's what we are doing this summer regarding food:

    Start in Yosemite Valley, I carry food for 3 days, the kids carry none.
    Resupply Tuolumne Meadows Post office (general delivery to self), 4 days of food, I carry all.
    Resupply Reds Meadows Store (package self delivered before hike), 4 days of food, I carry all
    Resupply Vermillion (mailed to Resort), 3 days of food, I carry all
    Resupply MTR (mailed to ranch), 9 days of food, I carry 5 days, they carry 2 days each, we eat their shares first. Also pick up extra bear canisters to that location.
    Resupply at Whitney Portal Store (self deliver before hike), 9 days of food, same load arrangements as from MTR to Portal, recharge camera batteries, eat burgers, shower, don't go into the valley.
    Resupply MTR (mail to location), 5 days of food, I carry all. Extra bear canisters mailed home from there.
    Resupply Reds Meadows Resort (self deliver before hike), I carry all
    Resupply Tuolumne Meadow Post office, I carry all of it.

for each section, we have slightly more food than we absolutely need, but not too much that we'd have to dump food - we just pig out the day before the next pickup usually :D And don't forget the fun of goin through the "hiker barrel" at the major resupply places. There's some great stuff in there sometimes. We got a week's supply of Cliff bars at the Muir Ranch for example, and even a box of $$ lithium AA batteries :thumbsup:

Meanwhile, we will be carrying about 4-5 pounds less in each pack this year, making it easier to complete 437 miles and about 92,000 vertical feet in about walking 30 days (that's 14.8 miles and 3120 feet per day)
Last edited by fishmonger on Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
fishmonger
Topix Expert
 
Posts: 946
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:27 am
Location: Madison, WI
Experience: Level 4 Explorer

User avatar

Re: Offer to resupply you at JMT mile 88 (Vermillion) - with a c

Postby fishmonger » Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:55 pm

regarding the vermillion resupply offer - that's the easy place to resupply:

http://www.edisonlake.com/site/index.ph ... &Itemid=42

I'd love to have somebody resupply me at Woods Creek, though :unibrow:

leaving things in bear boxes is not considered alright by rangers, definitely not over 24 hours, which is why we will carry all our food from Muir Ranch to Whitney Portal in one load.

here's an idea for you: start at Woods Creek (or wherever you can park below), resupply at Vermillion by mail, return hike to your car at Woods Creek.
User avatar
fishmonger
Topix Expert
 
Posts: 946
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:27 am
Location: Madison, WI
Experience: Level 4 Explorer

User avatar

Re: Offer to resupply you at JMT mile 88 (Vermillion) - with a c

Postby JohnCurranLadd » Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:54 pm

Fishmonger

Thanks for the thought. I'm just too cheap to pay VVR to pick up my mail and bring it to the resort. Maybe I should get over it. Plus I've already done the route up Paradise Valley from Roads End to Woods Creek and would prefer not to do it again (twice on a RT). It would add 30 miles and 3500 ft to what is already a 160 mile - 30,000 feet trip. (Roads End to Woods Creek along Paradise Valley is lovely, but about 15 miles each way and a 3500 ft climb on the way North.) That's why it's attractive for me to start at the VVR end on a RT.

My hope is to find someone else who is either: (1) like me, too cheap to pay VVR to pick up the mailed food or (2), unlike me, who is too much in a hurry to take the ferry over to VVR and back. People who fit that profile (if they are not hiking solo) might find that my offer works for them. So it does not seem unfair to me. I'd be asking them to carry 7 lbs but delivering saving them 14-20 lbs, and without the VVR pickup charge (more weight savings for larger groups).

I'm not sure I wanted to stir up so much of a hornet's nest by this post. However, I loved your long post on a resupply strategy for a up-and-back with kids. Sounds like a great plan. With my two daughters, I could never get either to backpack more than 3-4 days (and in high schol 2-3 was tops). But then they got college, got to backpack with friends, and loved it and appreciated having known how to do it.

I've never heard that comment (don't cache in bear boxes) from rangers. I mark anything I cache with the date after which it is fair game for anyone else, so I don't feel it is an offense against trail etiquette. Particularly not at Woods Creek, where there are two large bear boxes that are usually less than 1/4 full.

John
User avatar
JohnCurranLadd
Topix Novice
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:11 am
Location: San Francisco, CA
Experience: N/A

User avatar

Re: Offer to resupply - JMT mile 88 (Vermillion) - with a catch

Postby fishmonger » Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:28 pm

your idea sounds great (and if I lived on the west side of the Sierras, I'd also be too cheap to pay somebody to move my stuff to the resort). The problem I see is that you need to find that on in a thousand hiker who may be doing what you have in mind, a the right time. Probably unlikely to bump into them online, if there's even somebody to be found.

Last year I was trying to find somebody to ride-share a shuttle from Lone Pine to Yosemite (park car end of Muir Trail, shuttle north and hike back), which probably has quite a number of prospective takers, but nobody replied anywhere online. Once there though, at Whitney Portal, we suddenly had 4 additinal people in the shuttle who decided it was worth the cash, only by asking around in the campground at the Portal the night before the ride.

Too bad there's no place where you can ask around for your planned trip to find the person who could benefit from your plan.

Hiking or hith-hiking to the Mono Hot springs post office from Vermillion may be an option for you - there you don't have to pay the resort to move your food a few miles. On the other hand, it's one of those hikes I know I will never repeat. It can get extremely hot down there.

We don't use the ferry on the lake (we're cheap, too, and don't want to wait for it) - on our way south, we come across Goodale Pass and from Graveyard Meadows, to the resort, from where we pick up a trail that starts just south of the dam and leads back up to the JMT at the top of Bear Ridge. Other than being dry, this trail is easier than the endless switchbacks on the JMT at the other end of the lake.

About the caching in bear boxes - go ask over on the Whitney Portal Store forum (http://www.whitneyportalstore.com/forum ... d=1&page=1 also a good place to look for somebody who may want to do what you are looking for) - there are actually a number of threads I saw rangers chime in on this, especially about bear boxes around Charlotte Lake where packers could leave food for hikers but are not allowed to leave there overnight.

PS - the only night I ever spent at Woods Creek was when there were about 50 boy scouts up there. It was awful - people kept taking our stuff out of bear boxes to put their crap in, there was screaming all night, bears probably kept a mile away due to that, but since that day I have made it a rule NEVER to stay at Woods Creek again.
User avatar
fishmonger
Topix Expert
 
Posts: 946
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:27 am
Location: Madison, WI
Experience: Level 4 Explorer

Next

Return to Transportation To & From



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests