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Them damCan Regs.

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Them damCan Regs.

Postby frediver » Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:07 pm

Bear Cans are required in Dusy Basin, ok a given.
Cans are not required at N.Lake.
If you enter from a "can free" area but exit thru
Dusy, do you still need the can? Does the Ranger
check your entrance point to determine if they care?
It is an extra 2.8 lbs. I do not really want to carry if
I don't have to.
It will not break my back but still is a PITA.



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Re: Them damCan Regs.

Postby markskor » Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:13 pm

frediver wrote:If you enter from a "can free" area but exit thru
Dusy, do you still need the can?

It will not break my back but still is a PITA.

Yes, you need to carry a can if overnighting anyplace where one is required.
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Re: Them damCan Regs.

Postby Carne_DelMuerto » Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:46 pm

It may be a pain, but just think of the bear you may be saving from being destroyed. In the long run the can helps the environment and thereby preserves it for future generations to enjoy. That's 2.8 pounds of enlightenment on your back. ;)
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Re: Them damCan Regs.

Postby AlmostThere » Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:46 pm

The ranger at Lodgepole's wilderness permit desk said that very soon they would be required above treeline in SEKI.

Since we saw a couple of large piles of bear poop up there above 10,000 in the Tablelands last weekend, I'm thinking I know why.
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Re: Them damCan Regs.

Postby paul » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:40 pm

Ah yes, I well recall camping around timberline in Bubbs creek on the way up to Forester pass. We found a nice spot, looked around at the few little trees and realized there was no hanging the food (this was in pre-canister requirement days). Well, we thought, if the trees are too small for hanging then we are probably above the bear habitat anyway. So we strolled around looking for a flat spot to sleep on, saw one, walked over, and there in the center was a big bear turd. Composed in part of aluminum foil. Once again, theory meets practice and loses out.
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Re: Them damCan Regs.

Postby frediver » Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:38 am

Amazing.
I think a good argument could be made that requiring Bear Cans is actually more harm than help to the Bear Problem.
The more they are in wide spread use the more Bear Confrontations seem to happen.
Now we are training bears to associate human smell with free food, not danger.
What happens now in Bear confrontations, what options do you have that really
are able to drive the bear off, harsh language, a few stones ( might just piss Yogi off), Pepper spray? Pepper spray might work but I really don't want to be close enough to use it.
Has anyone ever thought about why Bears seem not to be afraid of people any more, it is more than feeding the bears for a photo op.

O well Rant off, I will pack a can.
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Re: Them damCan Regs.

Postby AlmostThere » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:22 am

frediver wrote:Amazing.
I think a good argument could be made that requiring Bear Cans is actually more harm than help to the Bear Problem.
The more they are in wide spread use the more Bear Confrontations seem to happen.
Now we are training bears to associate human smell with free food, not danger.
What happens now in Bear confrontations, what options do you have that really
are able to drive the bear off, harsh language, a few stones ( might just piss Yogi off), Pepper spray? Pepper spray might work but I really don't want to be close enough to use it.
Has anyone ever thought about why Bears seem not to be afraid of people any more, it is more than feeding the bears for a photo op.

O well Rant off, I will pack a can.


You have it exactly backwards. When the bear gets the food reward, they get conditioned to have the jones for it - canisters prevent that.

Bears aren't afraid of people because there are so many people going out there, they see them all the time. Even where they are hunted, they break into cabins, cars, and steal stuff - the boy scout camps around Sierra National Forest find their cabins broken into and staff have to repair them.

All bears we have yelled at have left the campsite. It's not that hard in California.

You can always get the Bare Boxer if you're only going for a couple nights - cheapest, smallest and lightest option on the approved lists.
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Re: Them damCan Regs.

Postby freestone » Fri Sep 02, 2011 6:27 am

Buy a pack that is 2.8 pounds lighter and a Bearicade. The net will be a lighter load than you had before.
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Re: Them damCan Regs.

Postby markskor » Fri Sep 02, 2011 6:50 am

FWIW, the yelling of "BEAR" as a deterrent (plus the banging of pots) doesn't really do much anymore these days to any well-conditioned bear. Advocate instead chucking a few well-aimed granite chunks (bounced off its derriere) to teach them that there is no free lunch here. This may sound cruel but better to have them associate/learn that some mild discomfort will come along with their foraging on your particular backcountry campsite.
Yelling alone just means that they will probably come back later when you are asleep.
Better yet, carry a can.
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Re: Them damCan Regs.

Postby frediver » Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:44 pm

AlmostThere wrote:
frediver wrote:Amazing.
I think a good argument could be made that requiring Bear Cans is actually more harm than help to the Bear Problem.
The more they are in wide spread use the more Bear Confrontations seem to happen.
Now we are training bears to associate human smell with free food, not danger.
What happens now in Bear confrontations, what options do you have that really
are able to drive the bear off, harsh language, a few stones ( might just piss Yogi off), Pepper spray? Pepper spray might work but I really don't want to be close enough to use it.
Has anyone ever thought about why Bears seem not to be afraid of people any more, it is more than feeding the bears for a photo op.

O well Rant off, I will pack a can.


You have it exactly backwards. When the bear gets the food reward, they get conditioned to have the jones for it - canisters prevent that.

Bears aren't afraid of people because there are so many people going out there, they see them all the time. Even where they are hunted, they break into cabins, cars, and steal stuff - the boy scout camps around Sierra National Forest find their cabins broken into and staff have to repair them.

All bears we have yelled at have left the campsite. It's not that hard in California.

You can always get the Bare Boxer if you're only going for a couple nights - cheapest, smallest and lightest option on the approved lists.


Nah I think you have it backwards.
You were very lucky that yelling worked for you, more often that not
it fails.
Bears must be re-conditioned to fear even the smell of humans.
The big question is how is that best accomplished without killing Yogi.
Harsh language and stones don't do it.
A can still Smells like food.
Pepper ball launchers are the first thing that come to mind, see a bear
anywhere and blast Yogi with pepper. I doubt that electric stun rounds
would ever be approved for civilian use.
The only real cure is to make Bears Afraid of People Again and BearCans
do not do that!
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Re: Them damCan Regs.

Postby yosehiker » Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:55 pm

I hope you are joking.

Bears want food. Yes, a bear can still smells like food. There is almost no way to prevent a bear from smelling food that a human has. But we can prevent a bear from getting that food by putting it in a bear can. So they at first try to get food from the can, but eventually fail, and learn that getting into a bear can is impossible is a waste of time. The bear will then learn that though they can smell food at a campsite, they can't get into it, so they will continue eating it's natural food sources. (obviously the process is simplified here for conciseness)

I'm not sure the basis of your suggestion, but fear of humans doesn't really matter. Bears don't really care about humans, they care about food. In your suggestion, presuming no food storage, the bears can still get the food they just need to be scared of humans. Well, if there is a significant reward, say 5 days worth of high-calorie, sugary (compared to natural)food, and all a bear has to do is not be afraid of the human to get it, what's the logic progression there? Bear attacks human, then gets food. This is certainly not what we want to encourage bears to do or have hikers constantly trying to scare of bears. It's bad for everyone.

Just carry a can, it's really not that hard.
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Re: Them damCan Regs.

Postby frediver » Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:25 pm

I just feel the cans are more of a reactive measure than pro-active.
IMO we need to be more aggressive for better long term health of the
bear population.
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