High Sierra Topix

WD-
Thank you for your photographic review of outdoor clothing. Seems to me that men's hiking clothes were moving to fashion first, albeit with a bit more function, for some time. Slowly incorporating more function these days?
i still remember the shorts over long johns (for me, navy Patagonia expedition bottoms) in the late 70's and early 80's. Always had a light pair of wind pants as well. The advent of stretch pants led me to Marmot precip bottoms. Think that those bottoms are still in a closet somewhere.

I still see the shorts & long johns in the Sierra and elsewhere. I do it as well. For me it's always been bicycle tights instead of long johns, but it's the same thing. In the summer in the Sierra I usually don't take pants; I wear shorts when it's warm and the combination when it's cool.

longri wrote: ↑Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:24 pmI wonder how fast Andrew Skurka typically walks?

I found a webpage where Andrew Skurka talks about dead-reckoning navigation on easy backcountry trails.

And what's his typical speed?






3 mph.

longri wrote: ↑Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:25 am I still see the shorts & long johns in the Sierra and elsewhere. I do it as well.

You mean there's any other way? Still works for me, too.

John

Knickers!! When you take the one thing I really envy about women's clothing, it's the cut of the shorts that are like the old men's knickers: taper down past the knees a little, not too tight but more fitted with a few pockets and some reinforcement in the right places, real elasticized draw cords at the hem instead of some piece of fabric that doesn't work. I see women wearing them all the time. I had a pair I really loved made by Columbia back in the late 90s/early 2Ks, and wish I had 10 more, but haven't seen them since. Yeah, that's what I want. I've probably spent more time searching for something like this over the years than any other single piece of gear.

mrphil wrote: ↑Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:23 am Knickers!! When you take the one thing I really envy about women's clothing, it's the cut of the shorts that are like the old men's knickers: taper down past the knees a little, not too tight but more fitted with a few pockets and some reinforcement in the right places, real elasticized draw cords at the hem instead of some piece of fabric that doesn't work. I see women wearing them all the time. I had a pair I really loved made by Columbia back in the late 90s/early 2Ks, and wish I had 10 more, but haven't seen them since. Yeah, that's what I want. I've probably spent more time searching for something like this over the years than any other single piece of gear.

You mean women's capri pants? I'm sure you'd look mahvelous, dahling.

John

longri- I read that piece on Skurka's method of dead reckoning. I am not sure that when he say "I", he specifically means himself. It is in an example and he uses the first person but I think he is just using a hypothetical "I" for an example. Again, his example is for a 3-day backpack. To me backpack and hike are really different. When you ask what a person's "hiking" rate is, to me, it implies day-trips and the walking rate, not include rest breaks. Much like my 5-mile dog walks.

My guidebook on the Wind Rivers has estimated times calculated from rate of hiking, elevation gains, and general difficulty of the terrain. I use 2 mph as the standard rate on trails (excluding elevation since it is added as a separate calculation), even though I personally do 3 to 3.5 (and believe me, I am way past my prime!). That 2 mph rate includes a 10-minute break every hour. One reason I can make 3 mph is that I usually only take 1-2 rest breaks per 8 hours of hiking. Most people do not hike that way. I have an old injury due to a climbing accident over 40 years ago, and carrying any pack of any weight hurts. Therefore I have perfected walking fast as it minimizes the daily pain I must endure. When one puts advise in writing, one must be careful not to make it yours personally, but what would apply to the "average" backpacker. I do not want to put anyone at risk just to pump up my own ego regarding the speed that I hike. There is a bit of a liability issue there too.

It is hard for me to believe that Skurka, himself, can only do 3 mph on trails with good tread and minimal elevation gain. I bet Skurka in his prime (assumption- maybe he IS in his prime right now) hiked faster.

The author of the Elle article is an athlete, trail runner and maybe her "typical" hike is a 5-8 mile day hike with no rest stops. 4 mph may be a slight exaggeration or rounding up a bit, or slight optimistic error of a Fit Bit (I find that my I-phone step tracker is a bit optimistic compared to using a GPS to track my walks). I do not think there was any intention to inflate the rate. I bet if she had said 3.5 mph, she still would have received that response from the instructor. The rub is that each person has a different style of hiking that they consider "typical". My husbands laid-back "typical" includes taking shoes off and soaking feet at rest breaks, which by the end of the day, rest time exceeds walking time, and an mid-day nap, LOL.

I think Skurka reads our forum posts once in a while. It would be great if he would respond.


John- knickers are not exactly capri's. I even had corduroy knickers once, because my climbing hero, Gaston Rebufet wore them. Now, corduroy in the Alps? I cannot think of anything more stupid. Knickers actually have a closure tab (not draw string) and sewn in pleats at the knee to puff out this area.

Andrew Skurka says it himself in the video embedded in that blog post (at 1:11):

               "And typically on easy trails I walk at about three miles 'n hour." -- Andrew Skurka

In the video he is wearing a pack but he's cruising on a flat trail. I'm sure he could have walked at 4 mph if he chose to. But he didn't.

"Typical hiking speed" isn't a very precise term. There are a lot of ways you could choose to parse it. For example, one definition of hiking includes periods of running. If it's easy terrain and you're not burdened with a pack, wouldn't you possibly run some (or all) of it?

I don't think that's a reasonable way to interpret what the instructor was asking.

Mine had the draw string and a cinch toggle, they were definitely a modern version, but yes, it's traditionally a snap or button on a fabric tab. Capri pants are more like the men's 3/4. I've found a few pairs for cyclists, but the best pair of strict "knickers" that I've found is from a Norwegian company. Right now they're on sale for $169, marked down from about $250...I don't want them that bad.

And yes, John, I would look mahvelous, dahling. Bust out the old Vuarnet Cat Eyes (loved those too!) or Wayfarers, moisturize my "boy band legs", and you would be offering me shots off your whiskey flask and making idle small talk. Get longri out there in his jeans, and you would swear that you died and went to Hollywood.

Some of us have had really good outdoor trousers, but then the low cuff got worn out completely and looked like crap. So, cut off the low cuff and fashion them into knickers. It would take a good sewing machine and a good operator, but hardly anything in materials.