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Pack Weight Creep

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Re: Pack Weight Creep

Postby SSSdave » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:20 am

Hello Bobby,

You misinterpreted my post. (:


bobb49 >>>"...You've got all sorts of fisherman gear in there, but there is no fishing pole, so something is wrong...."

Something is wrong. Also no sleeping bag (I do get cold at night) or food or boots or clothes (am not a nudist) or mosquito repellent (they do bite me). That is because it is NOT my gear list.

I see you are a recent member on the board so don't know much about me haha. Please check out my link to understand more about me. I hand coded all the html on my site, that is over a dozen years old now, with over 5000 files and 1gb of file space.

I wrote:

I take many small items for...Just some of them for a good laugh...

In other words the items I listed are just a minor number of items I copied off my long gear list on a disgustingly comprehensive Excel spreadsheet for the sake of amusing other board members with items I doubt others bring backpacking. Its wise that you are also using a spreadsheet and weighing your gear onto a gear list, well done.


bobb49 >>>"...Why would you carry 4" pliers?"


Because after landing a trout, without touching much less holding a fish, by carefully grabbing a fish hook then inverting, a fish is most likely to release, receiving least damage to its mouth.
It also is useful for use in field repairs. For instance tightening loose tripod screws, fashioning repairs on broken eyeglass frames, pulling a cord through a cord lock hole, grabbing the backbone of a still hot in the pan cooked trout to remove it from its flesh, much more for someone with a creative mind.



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Re: Pack Weight Creep

Postby SirBC » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:30 pm

Lumbergh21 wrote:Interesting that you should say that. You might bring up the subject of how much toothpaste to use with your dentist on your next visit. Mine wouldn't have any problem with me or any of his patients not using toothpaste at all. It makes your breath smell better and provides some enamel protection through fluoride, but it isn't important in terms of cleaning. Having a toothbrush and using it correctly take care of the actual teeth cleaning part. At least that's what my dentist told me. He was happy to hear that I use just a small dollop about the size of half a pea when brushing my teeth. When I'm backpacking, I just use a toothbrush and water to rinse.


This dentist says your dentist slept though dental school :D Brushing your teeth without toothpaste is like trying to clean your hands with a scrub brush without soap. Not recommended. But yes, you need much less toothpaste than most probably think. A pea-sized amount is plenty and you can get by with even less than that.


Wandering Daisy wrote:I too have a spreadsheet, as the previous post described. It is really handy, because I can "virtually" pack trying out my various options. I start out with my "wish list" and soon realize it just too heavy. Fine tuning brings it down. My spreadsheet also includes food, with nutritional information.


I also like how easy it is to put together a pack-list for a trip using a spreadsheet. I use a free website (LighterPack.com) that lets you track the weight of your gear similar to a spreadsheet. It is a little more user friendly in that it lets you just drag and drop items from your "master list" to your current trip and you can also attach photos and share your list. This is an example for a trip last summer.
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Re: Pack Weight Creep

Postby mrphil » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:24 pm

SirBC wrote:
Lumbergh21 wrote:Interesting that you should say that. You might bring up the subject of how much toothpaste to use with your dentist on your next visit. Mine wouldn't have any problem with me or any of his patients not using toothpaste at all. It makes your breath smell better and provides some enamel protection through fluoride, but it isn't important in terms of cleaning. Having a toothbrush and using it correctly take care of the actual teeth cleaning part. At least that's what my dentist told me. He was happy to hear that I use just a small dollop about the size of half a pea when brushing my teeth. When I'm backpacking, I just use a toothbrush and water to rinse.


This dentist says your dentist slept though dental school :D Brushing your teeth without toothpaste is like trying to clean your hands with a scrub brush without soap. Not recommended. But yes, you need much less toothpaste than most probably think. A pea-sized amount is plenty and you can get by with even less than that.


Toothpaste is the one, what shall I call it (cleaning agent?) I must have. No soap of any kind otherwise. I've learned that several rinse and rinse, and rinse again cycles does wonders for overall hygiene and getting rid of the smell on me and my clothing, but clean teeth and a fresh mouth are one thing I absolutely can't start my day without.
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Re: Pack Weight Creep

Postby John Harper » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:17 am

mrphil wrote:Toothpaste is the one, what shall I call it (cleaning agent?) I must have. No soap of any kind otherwise. I've learned that several rinse and rinse, and rinse again cycles does wonders for overall hygiene and getting rid of the smell on me and my clothing, but clean teeth and a fresh mouth are one thing I absolutely can't start my day without.


So, you're the notorious "Kissing Klimber" of the Sierra?

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Re: Pack Weight Creep

Postby mrphil » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:32 am

Shhhhhh! Better minty fresh than oatmeal, coffee, and last night's curry. Why, I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't want to pucker up and have me plant one on them. Just an extension of my wanting to share special and intimate moments with my fellow backcountry enthusiasts. Does that make me a bad person? :smooch:
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Re: Pack Weight Creep

Postby Wandering Daisy » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:40 pm

I am old enough to remember the days when we poor folks used baking soda; toothpaste was too expensive. Kids who hated the aftertaste then were given a mint sprig to chew on. There was a time when you could buy tooth "powder". I wonder if there is any of that around anymore?
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Re: Pack Weight Creep

Postby maverick » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:59 pm

I wonder if there is any of that around anymore?


One of many. :)
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Re: Pack Weight Creep

Postby Lumbergh21 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:58 pm

SirBC wrote:
Lumbergh21 wrote:Interesting that you should say that. You might bring up the subject of how much toothpaste to use with your dentist on your next visit. Mine wouldn't have any problem with me or any of his patients not using toothpaste at all. It makes your breath smell better and provides some enamel protection through fluoride, but it isn't important in terms of cleaning. Having a toothbrush and using it correctly take care of the actual teeth cleaning part. At least that's what my dentist told me. He was happy to hear that I use just a small dollop about the size of half a pea when brushing my teeth. When I'm backpacking, I just use a toothbrush and water to rinse.


This dentist says your dentist slept though dental school :D Brushing your teeth without toothpaste is like trying to clean your hands with a scrub brush without soap. Not recommended. But yes, you need much less toothpaste than most probably think. A pea-sized amount is plenty and you can get by with even less than that.


OK, I was going to let this pass until someone else chimed in, brush your on brush, you know. However, I found this info at:

http://www.rdhmag.com/articles/print/vo ... -book.html

Excerpt:
In the early 1990s, Perio Reports subscribers and RDH readers were invited to participate in the "dry brushing — inside first" pilot study. Interested dental teams were sent forms and instructions for the project. They selected recall patients with lingual buildup and measured both calculus and bleeding on the mandibular lingual surfaces. Patients were instructed to start brushing dry, on the lingual surfaces first. Rather than teaching a specific brushing technique, patients were simply told to brush until their teeth felt and tasted clean. Calculus and bleeding were measured at their next visit to compare results.
Twenty-nine hygienists sent in before and after data on a total of 129 patients. Some tested the method on just one patient while others sent data on up to 10 patients, with the average being five patients for each hygienist. By 1994, all of the data were collected and analyzed. Calculus was reduced by 63% and bleeding by 55%. These results were presented in a poster session at the International Association of Dental Research meeting in Orlando, Florida in March of 1997. At that meeting, the editor of JADA, Dr. Larry Meskin, asked me to submit my findings to JADA, where it was published in 1998. We now had published, scientific research to support "dry brushing — inside first."

In other words, toothpaste is there to freshen your breath, fluoridate your teeth, and possibly encourage you to brush more (that fresh breath thing). However, it may even be a detriment to actually cleaning your teeth, especially if you are using more than a pea sized dollop of it. If you Google how much toothpaste to use, is toothpaste necessary, etc. I think you will find what I did, that toothpaste is recommended as a way to make people want to brush their teeth due to its pleasant taste and as a means of topical fluoride application. The cleaning part comes from your brush and how you use it not the toothpaste. You can bring toothpaste - however, please don't spit it out on the ground - but there is nothing wrong with me not bringing toothpaste.

Maybe your dentist slept through class when the proper brushing method for clean teeth was explained. :)
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Re: Pack Weight Creep

Postby SirBC » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:15 pm

Dental fight! Image I don't want to take this thread too far off the rails but as a dentist with a research background I would feel remiss not saying my piece.

Firstly, you missed an important point in the study you quoted. The patients first "dry brushed" their teeth, but they followed that up with then brushing the entire mouth, with toothpaste. This study was not comparing outcomes between patients who used toothpaste versus those who didn't. It was looking at what, if any, difference there was in plaque removal (and other indicators) on the inside of the lower teeth if you first dry brush that area followed by brushing normally with toothpaste. That's it. However, having said that, this study was not well designed or executed and I question the conclusions drawn. Just the way the patients were selected was so biased that it invalidates the study.

Secondly, note the limited scope of the study. This study was looking at plaque levels in one part of the mouth, and not at things like caries (cavities). You could have a mouth free of tartar but riddled with cavities.

Even though this study has a lot of problems (to an extent that I question its findings), I would not be surprised if first brushing with a dry brush was in fact more efficient at removing plaque. However, this is a case of where too much of a good thing could be harmful. Brushing with a dry brush is more abrasive than doing so with water and/or toothpaste. So it wouldn't surprise me if this increased abrasion resulted in more efficient removal of plaque. However, it also wouldn't surprise me if long-term that caused damage to the gums and enamel. Someone previously mentioned brushing with baking soda. Baking soda is very abrasive and yes, it works very well at removing plaque. However, when used over a long time it is a also very good at removing enamel. That is why we discourage patients from using something so abrasive, like baking soda, and to use a toothbrush with soft bristles.

There have been many studies over many years on dentifrices and every dental school in the country teaches their students that using toothpaste with proper tooth brushing technique is an important component of good dental health.

My apologies for running so far afield with this post. I will now step off of my :soapbox: and promise no more dental stuff in this thread.
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Re: Pack Weight Creep

Postby maverick » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:05 pm

Interesting dental hygiene discussion, but let's stay on topic gentlemen please. A separate thread on "backcountry dental hygiene" from a dentist point of view could be useful topic SirBC. :)
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