Assorted questions (Sleep, wide feet)

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freestone
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Re: Assorted questions (Sleep, wide feet)

Post by freestone » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:12 am

Besides weight, what do high end bags like Western Mountaineering have going for them?- Great customer Service. If your bag is ever damaged or you decide to add fill, they will always be there for you. Same with Enlightenment Quilts, I have one of those too, but even though they are lighter, there is a learning curve to using them and they have their own set of hassles to deal with. I never understood the concept of treating down to make it more water proof, down by nature is already very water resistant. Have you ever tried to wash a down bag before? You might want to consider the ZPacks, they are hoodless, but still a mummy style bag, which I find appealing because I always wake up in the middle of the night with the hood in my face.


Are closed cell pads still viable?- They will always work and be lighter, but as a slide sleeper, I prefer the air mats. They are well worth the extra weight and effort to inflate/deflate and have an added bonus of getting you off the ground a couple of inches and keeping you dry if water starts pooling under you during a heavy rain storm.


Fram...






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Re: Assorted questions (Sleep, wide feet)

Post by Wandering Daisy » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:23 am

Not yet mentioned, but either way you go, closed cell or air pads, be sure the R-factor is adequate for your needs. Choosing gear used to be a lot easier, when we had less choice! I get overwhelmed with all the different brands and models offered.

If you get an air-pad, DO NOT ever use it outside of the tent and carry it inside your pack (or in a very sturdy stuff sack if outside). I carried my Thermarest pad outside my pack once with inadeaquate protection and it got punctured while bushwhacking. Now that I am more careful with my Thermarest it has never had any kind of leak in over 5 years of heavy use. Be aware that if you get one of those 3" pads, when you sit up in the tent, you will be 3 inches closer to the tent top. I can now sit up in my tent with about an inch space remaining. A 3" pad would make my head hit the top.

I am achy at night, particularly my hips. The pain is not severe, just annoying enough to keep me awake. But I have not found the sleeping pad particuarly the only solution. Neither is Advil. No matter what I do, by morning aches are gone, even with sleeping side on a hard pad. I think it is just joint over-use for my age and being tense when I first get into my sleeping bag. Listening to music for an hour before going to sleep works about as well. I think muscles are tense, and relaxing with music helps. When you hike hard for 10-12 hours, your muscles do not immediatly and automatically relax.

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Re: Assorted questions (Sleep, wide feet)

Post by The Other Tom » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:02 pm

Wandering Daisy wrote: I am achy at night, particularly my hips. The pain is not severe, just annoying enough to keep me awake. But I have not found the sleeping pad particuarly the only solution. Neither is Advil.
If if gets too bad, try Voltaren. It works wonders for my hips. I can't take the "gut busters" anymore...too much stomach problems. It's prescription in the US.
https://www.painscience.com/articles/voltaren-gel.php

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Re: Assorted questions (Sleep, wide feet)

Post by maverick » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:15 pm

If if gets too bad, try Voltaren. It works wonders for my hips. I can't take the "gut busters" anymore...too much stomach problems. It's prescription in the US.
https://www.painscience.com/articles/voltaren-gel.php
Sounds better than an oral taken pharmaceutical med, but personally, would recommend you try Turmeric/Curcumin (with Black Pepper) and Boswallia combo, both are anti-inflammatory, and helpful with osteoarthritis associated pain.
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I don't give out specific route information, my belief is that it takes away from the whole adventure spirit of a trip, if you need every inch planned out, you'll have to get that from someone else.

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Re: Assorted questions (Sleep, wide feet)

Post by Ashery » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:57 pm

As a follow up question to everyone, particularly those that have a WM bag, what temp do/would you use for general Sierra use? (ie your season ending before, say, mid Oct)? WD already mentioned her 5F bag. And I know this is highly variable based on how people sleep, but I'd like to get a general feel of things. I'm currently leaning towards a 20F bag.

@Hobbes

I completely agree with the "buy cheap, buy twice" premise. It's why I framed the original question the way I did. WD framed the flip side to my question best when she brought up the fact that she feels it wouldn't be worth it to buy a newer WM bag when all she'd get out of the $800 is eight less ounces in her pack.

I'm an all side sleeper, actually. Back, side, and even stomach. Just depends on whatever I feel is particularly comfortable at any given point in time. I'm leaning towards the earlier recommendation of using one or two small pieces of closed cell to augment a full closed cell pad.

Hard to answer this question with a good degree of certainty because of the noise caused by the synthetic bottom of the Flash being shifted to face the open air and bleeding heat.

I'd be up for trying Altras again, but they'd be low on the priority list due to how fundamental the problem was.

Oh, and since you're here, what was that cheap watch you recommended at the meetup? I couldn't care less about the exact time during the day, but it'd be nice to know when it's getting close to first light.

@freestone

I wouldn't mind going hoodless on a warm bag, but I've always been happy to have the hood on my current bag whenever I've been up in the high Sierra.

Good point re:air mats working better if your tent happens to get water in it. Which reminds me, I need to go fix some pinholes in the bottom of my tent.

@WD

The R-factor shouldn't become an issue unless I start doing some serious snow camping, but at that point I'd need a new tent and a bag warmer than 20F.

In terms of air mattress use, you should've come to the meetup, :p Your point is well taken re:loss of space, though. I'd be less concerned about my head hitting the top of the tent when sitting up, than my head and feet hitting the side of the tent when lying down.

My impression of my own aches are that they're a direct result of my sleep setup. This is especially true if I happen to fall asleep for a significant stretch of the night on my side.

@maverick

Back country curry is where it's at, :D

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Re: Assorted questions (Sleep, wide feet)

Post by rlown » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:02 pm

Ashery wrote:As a follow up question to everyone, particularly those that have a WM bag, what temp do/would you use for general Sierra use? (ie your season ending before, say, mid Oct)? WD already mentioned her 5F bag. And I know this is highly variable based on how people sleep, but I'd like to get a general feel of things. I'm currently leaning towards a 20F bag.
I use this: https://www.moosejaw.com/moosejaw/shop/ ... eeping-Bag She's 15F.. But a LOT cheaper when I bought it. Sometimes the zipper is just open..

Worth every penny :D

The most important thing to good bag mgmt is that bath you take before you crawl into it. You sleep better and the bag stays cleaner.

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Re: Assorted questions (Sleep, wide feet)

Post by maverick » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:18 pm

The most important thing to good bag mgmt is that bath you take before you crawl into it. You sleep better and the bag stays cleaner.
Also, using a good bag liner protects it from your sweat and dirt, and increases the bags warmth by 5F to 15F degrees (depending on the material).
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I don't give out specific route information, my belief is that it takes away from the whole adventure spirit of a trip, if you need every inch planned out, you'll have to get that from someone else.

Have a safer backcountry experience by using the HST ReConn Form 2.0, named after Larry Conn, a HST member: http://reconn.org

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Re: Assorted questions (Sleep, wide feet)

Post by Dave_Ayers » Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:09 pm

@Dave_Ayers
How slippy is slippy at 500mi?

Well when I start to slip a smidge on the steepest parts going down the Horse Heaven trail on Mission Peak. :D That is a local trail which has sections that are quite steep with smooth bare dirt surfaces. It's steeper than any Sierra trail I can recall. Usually I rotate them to daily wear at about 550-600 mi or so. That's longer lasting for me than any other trail runner I've ever worn (Salomon, New Balance, Asics, etc.).

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Re: Assorted questions (Sleep, wide feet)

Post by Wandering Daisy » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:07 pm

The reason I have a 5-degree bag is not for the Sierra, but because I do a lot of backpacking in Wyoming where it is colder. I also have a 45-degree synthetic bag that I only use on the coast, because of the dampness. Never have taken it to the Sierra. If I were to specifically get a bag for the Sierra it would be a 20-degree bag.

It has been verified that in general, women sleep colder. So the women-specific bags out now have more fill for the same comfort range. In other words, my old mens 5-degree bag is actually a 15-degree bag for me. My "5-degree" bag weighs 2 pounds 14 oz. and is a 750-down (best they had when I bought it). You can get a ligher bag nowadays with teh 800-900 bags.

The actual fit and design of the bag makes a big differenc too. My bag has too much shoulder space. I compensate by stuffing my clothing inside to minimize the dead air space. Most bags are made for the average build. Skinny or rotund people have a harder time getting a good bag fit. My husband, who is huge shouldered, would hardly fit in my bag! For me, I could do with many less inches in girth.

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Re: Assorted questions (Sleep, wide feet)

Post by Ashery » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:18 pm

Agree with the liner; bought a silk one back when I initially bought my gear. Bag looks pristine, save for the hood, thanks to skin and hair oils.

Sounds like we've got a similar understanding of the use of slippy, Dave, so I'll keep my eye out for'em.

How late in the season would you use a 20F bag, WD?

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