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Re: Got an ice axe. Should I get a leash?

Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:48 pm
by peaksandpotatoes
you have an ice axe!! the leash is a personal choice and it's not black and white. I think sometimes it will depend on what you are doing whether you want a leash or not.

the microspikes on the other hand... i am definitely in the camp of crampons or boots. if you are not sure about that, come borrow mine and try them out later in the season. i think microspikes give a false sense of security on some slopes, and do very little in other situations. that's just my opinion, and for cross country sierra passes, i would want to be prepared with the crampons anyway, so might as well leave the microspikes at home? i hear those rei member sales have a lot of crampons in the late spring, when people try mountaineering and decide it's not for them. (my friend got black diamond contact straps for $20 last season!!) sometimes you look at a slope with snow on it, and you know you don't NEED the crampons, but actually, they will add a lot of speed and ease to your travel. so. i love my crampons!

yah but practice is important like everyone sats. and all the ways falling, like daisy said. head first and all that. it is fun! let's do it sometime! also falling with crampons there are some things to be aware of. but it's not hard, and actually it doesn't take long before the self arrest movement is your instinct.

Re: Got an ice axe. Should I get a leash?

Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:30 am
by Hobbes
The debate about ice axe leash or no leash is similar to runners/spikes vs boots/crampons. As PP says, it's all very subjective - maybe in the "who's better, Dodgers or Giants" category. :lol:

When Brian and I did the guided MR alpine climb, the question of leash vs no leash came up. The lead guide was not particularly in favor, but didn't want to firmly influence anyone. However, it should be noted that no one had a leash on the next day when we summitted in conditions Ryan ( afterward called "Mountaineers Plus".

Likewise the discussion about spikes vs crampons. As Ned covers in his missive posted above, spikes are better in situations when there are established boot tracks and mixed snow/rock. (As well as water crossings - it's a major PITA to constantly remove boots whereas with runners you can just wade through.)

However, if you're not hiking a well tread snow path like the PCT/JMT in spring conditions, then boots/crampons would probably be a more reasonable choice. My solution is to have both ie I simply carry my boots/crampons if I'm going someplace with more vertical, less traveled terrain.

This shot of Glen pass last spring provides an excellent perspective. Since there was an established path, runners/spikes worked fine for us (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14472&start=24). However, imagine if you were the first one looking at this slope (or a remote x-c pass covered in snow)? I wouldn't try it without boots/crampons.


Ultimately, it's about experience - only through practical application can you really figure out what you need/want. And, like everyone says, you gotta practice. The good thing is, unlike most training, practicing glissading and self-arrest is actually pretty damn fun.

Re: Got an ice axe. Should I get a leash?

Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:22 am
by Wandering Daisy
Losing your ice axe (without a leash) and getting stabbed by your axe (falling) both must be considered. For me, the more likely would be that I simply drop the stupid thing. I like the leash because it frees my mind to concentrate on the snow, not worry about dropping my ice axe. I am also a very conservative climber - I have only had to actually use my ice axe to arrest a fall a few times in over 45 years. I use the ice axe a lot as a climbing tool where it could more likely slip out of my hands.

I only use crampons, simply because they are what I have. I have both serious front-point snow climbing crampons that have to be used with mountaineering boots, and light weight flexible ones that I use with low-cut hiking shoes. Microspikes would only save a few ounces so I really cannot justify the cost. In many cases, just wearing real mountaineering boots elimnates the need for any traction devices. With the popularity of light hikers and trail runners, the microspikes have become popular because they can easily be attached to these shoes and are easier to carry when not using. Hobbes is entirely right - microspikes are NOT intended for steep snow slopes. They keep you from slipping on very low angle icy snow or on steps that have already been kicked in snow.

Case in point. Years ago a friend and I went into Sky Blue Lake and climbed the sourrounding peaks early season. She is a fabulous rock climber (way above my ability) but not that experienced on snow, so she chose to use crampons. I grew up on snow climbing in the Pacific Northwest and then spend all my climbing in the WInd RIvers without using crampons, so am very comfortable on a 1-inch kicked step in steep snow, so did not use my crampons. We both were doing what resulted in the most comfort and least worry. By the way, we each are leash proponents.

Not previously mentioned, ice axes come in many different lengths. The length you choose is based on your height AND the intended use. The steeper the slopes and the more technical the climbing, usually, the shorter you want the axe. If on lower angles and if to be used primarily as a balance point, then longer lengths are used. You also can choose between a straight pick or curved. To self arrest, minimally, you need to be able to hang on the the top and bottom of the shaft when in the self arrest position. If you are going to take self arrest lessons, you may prefer to go to the class and use several axes they provide before purchasing your own.

Re: Got an ice axe. Should I get a leash?

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:46 pm
by alpinemike
I fully support the use of a leash on an ice axe. Like Wandering Daisy points out I would always worry about dropping the darn thing while hiking up or going down. And that's the last thing I want to drop on a steep slope. As everyone has mentioned practice is key in knowing how not to stab yourself with it. Also... just as a personal note, whenever I expect snow of any sort I bring the ice axe. Why? Because the ice axe is what will save my life if I happen to fall. The crampons and microspikes will help me get up a steep slope but they do absolutely nothing for me if I happen to fall and can't stop myself. I would much rather cut some foot holds and kick some steps in with my boots and have my ice axe with me then have crampons and worry about falling the entire time. I have been in positions where I used my ice axe to descend a snow slope by glissading since it was safer than side-hilling or going straight up the face of something.

Personally, given the cross country terrain and climbing peaks that Rogue and I do I'm bringing the crampons this year. But if you're on a well established trail through the snow then microspikes will work just fine as most have pointed out. It's all about the terrain you are planning on going through.