Got an ice axe. Should I get a leash?

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peaksandpotatoes
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Re: Got an ice axe. Should I get a leash?

Post by peaksandpotatoes »

you have an ice axe!! the leash is a personal choice and it's not black and white. I think sometimes it will depend on what you are doing whether you want a leash or not.

the microspikes on the other hand... i am definitely in the camp of crampons or boots. if you are not sure about that, come borrow mine and try them out later in the season. i think microspikes give a false sense of security on some slopes, and do very little in other situations. that's just my opinion, and for cross country sierra passes, i would want to be prepared with the crampons anyway, so might as well leave the microspikes at home? i hear those rei member sales have a lot of crampons in the late spring, when people try mountaineering and decide it's not for them. (my friend got black diamond contact straps for $20 last season!!) sometimes you look at a slope with snow on it, and you know you don't NEED the crampons, but actually, they will add a lot of speed and ease to your travel. so. i love my crampons!

yah but practice is important like everyone sats. and all the ways falling, like daisy said. head first and all that. it is fun! let's do it sometime! also falling with crampons there are some things to be aware of. but it's not hard, and actually it doesn't take long before the self arrest movement is your instinct.
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Re: Got an ice axe. Should I get a leash?

Post by Hobbes »

The debate about ice axe leash or no leash is similar to runners/spikes vs boots/crampons. As PP says, it's all very subjective - maybe in the "who's better, Dodgers or Giants" category. :lol:

When Brian and I did the guided MR alpine climb, the question of leash vs no leash came up. The lead guide was not particularly in favor, but didn't want to firmly influence anyone. However, it should be noted that no one had a leash on the next day when we summitted in conditions Ryan (http://www.ryanhuetter.com/) afterward called "Mountaineers Plus".

Likewise the discussion about spikes vs crampons. As Ned covers in his missive posted above, spikes are better in situations when there are established boot tracks and mixed snow/rock. (As well as water crossings - it's a major PITA to constantly remove boots whereas with runners you can just wade through.)

However, if you're not hiking a well tread snow path like the PCT/JMT in spring conditions, then boots/crampons would probably be a more reasonable choice. My solution is to have both ie I simply carry my boots/crampons if I'm going someplace with more vertical, less traveled terrain.

This shot of Glen pass last spring provides an excellent perspective. Since there was an established path, runners/spikes worked fine for us (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14472&start=24). However, imagine if you were the first one looking at this slope (or a remote x-c pass covered in snow)? I wouldn't try it without boots/crampons.

Image

Ultimately, it's about experience - only through practical application can you really figure out what you need/want. And, like everyone says, you gotta practice. The good thing is, unlike most training, practicing glissading and self-arrest is actually pretty damn fun.
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Re: Got an ice axe. Should I get a leash?

Post by Wandering Daisy »

Losing your ice axe (without a leash) and getting stabbed by your axe (falling) both must be considered. For me, the more likely would be that I simply drop the stupid thing. I like the leash because it frees my mind to concentrate on the snow, not worry about dropping my ice axe. I am also a very conservative climber - I have only had to actually use my ice axe to arrest a fall a few times in over 45 years. I use the ice axe a lot as a climbing tool where it could more likely slip out of my hands.

I only use crampons, simply because they are what I have. I have both serious front-point snow climbing crampons that have to be used with mountaineering boots, and light weight flexible ones that I use with low-cut hiking shoes. Microspikes would only save a few ounces so I really cannot justify the cost. In many cases, just wearing real mountaineering boots elimnates the need for any traction devices. With the popularity of light hikers and trail runners, the microspikes have become popular because they can easily be attached to these shoes and are easier to carry when not using. Hobbes is entirely right - microspikes are NOT intended for steep snow slopes. They keep you from slipping on very low angle icy snow or on steps that have already been kicked in snow.

Case in point. Years ago a friend and I went into Sky Blue Lake and climbed the sourrounding peaks early season. She is a fabulous rock climber (way above my ability) but not that experienced on snow, so she chose to use crampons. I grew up on snow climbing in the Pacific Northwest and then spend all my climbing in the WInd RIvers without using crampons, so am very comfortable on a 1-inch kicked step in steep snow, so did not use my crampons. We both were doing what resulted in the most comfort and least worry. By the way, we each are leash proponents.

Not previously mentioned, ice axes come in many different lengths. The length you choose is based on your height AND the intended use. The steeper the slopes and the more technical the climbing, usually, the shorter you want the axe. If on lower angles and if to be used primarily as a balance point, then longer lengths are used. You also can choose between a straight pick or curved. To self arrest, minimally, you need to be able to hang on the the top and bottom of the shaft when in the self arrest position. If you are going to take self arrest lessons, you may prefer to go to the class and use several axes they provide before purchasing your own.
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Re: Got an ice axe. Should I get a leash?

Post by alpinemike »

I fully support the use of a leash on an ice axe. Like Wandering Daisy points out I would always worry about dropping the darn thing while hiking up or going down. And that's the last thing I want to drop on a steep slope. As everyone has mentioned practice is key in knowing how not to stab yourself with it. Also... just as a personal note, whenever I expect snow of any sort I bring the ice axe. Why? Because the ice axe is what will save my life if I happen to fall. The crampons and microspikes will help me get up a steep slope but they do absolutely nothing for me if I happen to fall and can't stop myself. I would much rather cut some foot holds and kick some steps in with my boots and have my ice axe with me then have crampons and worry about falling the entire time. I have been in positions where I used my ice axe to descend a snow slope by glissading since it was safer than side-hilling or going straight up the face of something.

Personally, given the cross country terrain and climbing peaks that Rogue and I do I'm bringing the crampons this year. But if you're on a well established trail through the snow then microspikes will work just fine as most have pointed out. It's all about the terrain you are planning on going through.
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Re: Got an ice axe. Should I get a leash?

Post by Gogd »

There is a debate on axe leashes, whether to use one secured to the wrist or one secured around the waist. I vote secure the leash to your wrist.

I had a fall in the early 1970s that settled that choice for me. Some friends and I from the Claremont Colleges were in the mountains above our campus, descending the Mountaineer's Route on Mount Baldy, of the San Gabriel Mountains. This is a fairly popular route, but is also known for the numerous mishaps occurring, the list of victims including highly respected climbers, in addition to city folks who got in over their heads.

We had gotten down the steepest parts and were somewhere above the Sierra Club hut. The snowpack was refreezing in the late day, regardless it still received direct sun. I was using French crampon technique, while taking the fall line over what may have been a very large, concealed boulder. I had stepped from the top of this object onto the face, when I was suddenly pitched onto my back, as if someone yanked a rug out from under me. I landed flat on my back, got the wind knocked out of me, and immediately started tobogganing down the fall line. One of my feet caught the slope, causing my head and feet to instantly swap positions, so I was sliding head first on my back. The fall was violent enough to cause me to lose grip of my axe. It was only an instant before I regained compose and reacted, but in that moment I had accelerated to sprinter's speed and my axe was bouncing around above me at my feet. Dazed, in a panic, I struggled to regain possession of the axe. I began dragging the axe head, causing my body to rotate into the head high/feet low, belly facing the snow arrest position. In my rush I didn't notice I had lined the axe up wrong, such that the adze not the pick was contacting the snow. When I aggressively weighed the axe head the adze bit forcefully into the snowpack, ripping the axe from my grip. I was still using an ash shafted axe in those days. The leash of my axe was secured to a ring that could slide up and down the axe shaft. A lag screw secured in the axe shaft prevented the ring from sliding off the end of the shaft - or so that is how it is supposed to work. But the force of the pull coming from the adze sunken into the snowpack was enough to pull lag screw out of the shaft, causing me to part ways with my axe. The rest of the fall was a blur. I threw a crampon, made a yard sale of my pack and contents, tearing away portions of my clothing and skin as I glanced off and over terrain, eventually flying over a small step, landing with enough force to plunge through the ice crust. I came to rest where I landed. I lost hundreds of feet in elevation. It took about 5 minutes before the rest of my party found me in a gully. By that point they had become quite distraught. But I was alive, and didn't recall blacking out. I was driven to Pomona Valley Hospital ER, where I was cleared for bed rest back in the dorms. Amazingly I only sustained a concussion, sprain ankle, and a bunch of bruises, cuts and scrapes. The next couple of days was one of the few times I resorted to pain meds. I hurt head to toe, went through a ton of ice in the days thereafter, and took about a month before I looked presentable and felt like engaging in a full slate of daily activities.

So two lessons emerge from this experience:
  • You should secure your axe with a wrist leash. I don't think I ever would have gained control of my axe if I had opted for a leash secured to my waist. A fall can be very energetic and chaotic. If you were to lose grip of your axe it would be very difficult to regain control of it if the leash was wrapped around your body, or flailing wildly about, independent of your hand.
  • If you should fall on icy or crusty terrain of any significant incline, you actually have no time to consider your options. Your reaction must be instinctive, instantaneous. Even when fall drills have imprinted arrest techniques into automatic responses, the time to effectively react can be frighteningly brief, and you can still make mistakes. I was well drilled, always practicing at the start of my outings, as WD implores. But a slip causing you to get dazed or knocking the wind from you can chew up the brief grace period you have to respond, transforming you from trekker into a human toboggan in an instant, unlikely to regain control and you will be SOL.
Ed
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Re: Got an ice axe. Should I get a leash?

Post by Wandering Daisy »

Wow! Glad you are still alive.

That fall brings up a related question about when you need to rope up. Once you get on steep terrain with a long potential fall, there is the fine line between needing a belay vs not. Training and experience are big factors here; having gear alone is not enough. You should not even be on this type of slope unless you have had extensive experience "reading" snow conditions. Of course, you need a partner if you are going to need a belay. I personally stay out of this fuzzy zone when solo and particularly now that my snow climbing expertise is quite rusty.

I recall that RJ Secor's had crampons when he fell but they were in his pack and not on his feet. Another fuzzy zone is when to put on the crampons. It is not straight-forward. Once you have crampons on, you lose the ability to plant your feet in a fall while doing a self-arrest. And in some snow conditions the snow balls up under the crampon so wearing them is actually worse than not. And when on a steep slope you cannot just stop and take them off easily.

You should also practice retreating off a snow slope. I have started up a slope and then hit ice mid-point. The question becomes if it is safer to continue upward (perhaps shorter distance to go) or retreat. I find going down a steep slope harder.

Lastly, runouts matter. A 100-foot slide to flat snow is different than a 1000-foot fall or if there are rocks in the fall line.
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Re: Got an ice axe. Should I get a leash?

Post by Gogd »

Wandering Daisy wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 6:47 am Wow! Glad you are still alive.

That fall brings up a related question about when you need to rope up.
One thing for sure, bring a properly functioning brain, and use it! That is your most vital safety device.

Alive, but despite myself, as my mom would remark. (My poor mama, what I put her through!) Between doing some challenging (stupid stuff) with no consequence, and the freak strokes of bad luck (e.g. this incident, freak weather) and bad health with age, some long time friends remark I seem to have nine lives. One commented I have a cat litter of nine lives. My attending physicians concur. The thing is if you are very active and like adrenaline, trouble will find you and eventually the near misses yield a direct hit. Fortunately I stopped signing up for the more risky activities before something serious occurred. I guess I am still here because I always ascribed to the credo that the objective of any trip is get back, preferably with all of your digits. The worse of my run ins was a historic long, severe storm on Mt. St. Elias that left me with a couple of numb, deformed toes. May I say, I enjoyed all I can stand of that nonsense! I now desire wider margins of safety than are possible on Mt. Hunter, etc. I now climb only when there is no easier route to my objective - if there is a road, then I am driving! Likewise no more early winter trips to the Rockies, Wind River Range or Alaskan coastal ranges where bad weather define the objective risks. I am done testing and proving things to myself; nowadays I'd rather be lakeside in a high cirque, sipping a good bourbon and admiring the the surrounding crags at that distance, than perfecting my duck and cover moves or negotiating fall-you-die pitches in gale force winds. Don't get me wrong, I love the views from the high crests and peaks, but I'm long retired from intentionally seeking Class 5 adventures, dodging rocks and surfing down choss filled chutes.

I agree about risk assessment and gear considerations. Know what you are getting into and know how to deal with it. The Mountaineer's Route is usually climbed un-roped. In fact there are days you can speed up and back without having to contend with morning or late day frozen crust; however, only a fool would take that as an opportunity to leave the spikes and axe behind. The route can quickly get very serious, as Mt Baldy is notorious for generating its own local weather. Every year it sees periods where a sheet of glare ice covers the snowpack, making it a very spicy route. Glare ice conditions on Mt Baldy normally are associated with rain, but the Santa Anna winds, with hot, sunny days and cold, clear nights, can create this condition in a single afternoon. And of course severe weather can quickly develop. I don't carry rope on day trips up the Mountaineer's Route. I turn around if it is in poor condition, and don't attempt the route when the weather forecasts precipitation or a Santa Anna condition. Mt Baldy is a wonderful mountain, it can be a blue bird day on the trails and rocks on the entire mountain, but it also be fierce and climb like a mountain much higher than its stated elevation during the winter/spring season.

When we were out that day the route was in good condition. Most of the route slopes 20 - 30˚. We were taking our time, and the traction was good on frozen corn snow, just prior to my fall. My weird, sudden, hard fall and not having control of the axe for a moment were the factors leading to loss of control. I was not able to go back and examine the spot where I fell; but my guess is there was a foot of slab crust covering the rock, and that the stress of my foot placement on the face of the rock caused a release fracture between my lead foot and uphill trailing foot. My friends did not indicate I triggered an avalanche, so if there was a structure failure, it was limited to the immediate proximity of my foot falls. That is my guess. Otherwise just another sh** happens event.

Ed
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