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Tents, tents, oh, what tent?

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Re: Tents, tents, oh, what tent?

Postby maverick » Fri Feb 26, 2016 6:18 pm

Here is a discussion about the Lightheart Solo and the Moment: https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/29373/
That LHS really looks like my Wanderlust Nomad. :)
HST= Wilderness Adventurer who knows no bounds, except for their own imagination.

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Re: Tents, tents, oh, what tent?

Postby Wandering Daisy » Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:16 pm

Another question. I have never had one of those "hub" pole designs. We do have a tent with a cross bar and I have a heck of a time putting it on - very tight, my husband always has to do that part. I certainly cannot have a tent that I cannot put together myself. To me, the simpler the better as far as tent poles go. I do not want to have to figure out a puzzle or see how strong my arms are at the end of a day!

I did a lot of reading the last two days and found some interesting stuff. Evidently, the "misting" problem with some SilNylon can be solved simply be adding a layer or two of sealant - same as sealing the seams but just do the whole tent. The cost is about $10 and it increases the weight of the tent about 2-3 oz. Still frustrating that you would have to pay about $300 for a new tent and then have to do that, but at least, if a tent is perfect in every other respect and that was the only problem, it is an option.

One thing that is seldom discussed is the water retention of different tent fabrics. Evidently Cuben does not retain moisture so even if packed wet, just wipe it off and it weighs nearly the same as a dry tent. Whereas, SilNylon , especially as it ages, can absorb moisture into the fabric, so even if you wipe it off, if you have to carry a wet tent, there is a significant added weight, in addition to the fact that a wet soggy tent cannot be packed inside the pack. The other little hidden weight, is that some of the extremely UL tent floors really need a footprint or at least Tyvek sheet under if camping on anything rocky -sort of normal conditions for me. So the few ounces less that you pay dearly for is lost when you have to add the footprint. And the stupid lack of information on total weight- for example my Moment's advertised weight only includes two stakes. Practically, I never go out without carrying six stakes. And on some tents impractically small stakes are provided simply to keep the advertised weight down. So you pay additional $$ for an advertised weight, then have to go out and buy heavier stakes just to use the stupid thing. You do not get a lot of "truth in advertising" when considering a tent. All sorts of tricks in the contest of who has the lightest tent.

Why are big manufacturers, like Big Agnes or MSR, not offering Cuben fiber tent flies? Or at least the option of paying more for a Cuben fly. Do you think if I just waited a year, they will start doing this? I could re-seal my poor old Moment and limp along another year if I knew that was in the works.

So here is where I am; Design-wise I cannot help but love the Copper Spur UL1, but weather worthiness in continuous rain worries me plus the thinner fabric. Hubba NX-1 almost fits the bill, but almost too narrow (no room for my dog). But for both of these, I have never set up a hub-pole system. Tarptent Notch or just the newer double wall version of the Moment also appealing but all I have read about exclusively SilNylon tents makes me reluctant. Hilleberg Akto looks good, but I am not yet there on the extra weight. The lighter Hilleberg models specifically say to be used in moderate climates and I cannot find any comparison between Kerlon 1000 and the 30D, 3000 psi rating on the Hubba. I like the Nallo but there is no 1-person Nallo, the 2-person tent way too heavy.

The plan now is to buy the Hubba NX-1 through REI and if I do not like it I can return it without shipping costs. Next, do the same with the Copper Spur. If that does not work out, then start on the tents that are not offered through REI. In the good old days before internet shopping and 100 tents to choose from, REI actually had most of the tents in their stores so you could just go there for an afternoon and set up tents. Not so anymore. Like "too much information", I am overwhelmed by "too many choices" and nowhere to see all in one place.
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Re: Tents, tents, oh, what tent?

Postby Wandering Daisy » Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:21 pm

Oh, yes I saw that Lightheart Solo discussion. I want a double wall tent where the fly can be totally detached from the tent. It looks to me that the Lightheart Solo has them attached. Thanks for the link.
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Re: Tents, tents, oh, what tent?

Postby LMBSGV » Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:05 pm

The reason I got the Hubba Hubba NX versus the Hubba was the space issue. Even though technically the specs say it's a two person tent, I got the Hubba Hubba NX as a solo tent because, as some reviews point out, the Hubba Hubba is a cramped two person tent. Since I put the camera bag, tripod, notebook, etc along one side (the space taken up by a sleeping bag), I find the Hubba Hubba works great as a one person tent. I feel there is lots of room and no sense of claustrophobia. With your dog you might want the Hubba Hubba.

The hubbed pole design is quite easy to put up after the first time of figuring it out. The diagram in the tent stuff bag is helpful in jogging one's memory after not putting it up for a couple of months. The one bit of the instructions I wondered about is staking the corners down before attaching the poles since I'd never done this before except in high wind. I learned one needs to stake the corners down before attaching the pole, otherwise the tent will slide around all over the place. Once the tent is up, adjust the stakes a little for the space you are pitched in. Also, the stakes that come with the tent are not that great. I had one shatter when I was pounding it in on a rock-gravel surface. Bring along extra stakes that you know work correctly.

Lastly, I confess to hating the name hubba. My Think Tank camera bag and my tent are named hubba hubba. If they had existed back then, I'm sure Dante would have included a circle in hell for marketing departments.

Best of luck with your tent. So far, I'm happy with my Hubba Hubba, despite the name.
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Re: Tents, tents, oh, what tent?

Postby oldranger » Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:23 am

Daisy wrote:

One thing that is seldom discussed is the water retention of different tent fabrics. Evidently Cuben does not retain moisture so even if packed wet, just wipe it off and it weighs nearly the same as a dry tent. Whereas, SilNylon , especially as it ages, can absorb moisture into the fabric, so even if you wipe it off, if you have to carry a wet tent, there is a significant added weight, in addition to the fact that a wet soggy tent cannot be packed inside the pack.


Daisy,

Seems to me that short of air drying that whatever you use to wipe your tent will retain some water even after wringing it out so adding weight will be inevitable. Of course the small towels I carry dry out pretty quickly (unless the rain continues) when tied to the outside of my pack.

Also despite experiencing 2 20 hour deluges last summer my Big Sky evolution did not mist on me, though neither event involved significant wind which, I suppose, could change the game.

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Re: Tents, tents, oh, what tent?

Postby freestone » Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:11 am

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Re: Tents, tents, oh, what tent?

Postby Wandering Daisy » Tue Mar 08, 2016 10:12 am

I went to REI yesterday and set up the Big Agnes Copper Spur 1. I know this is probably just me, but I really did not like it! It looked SO good in the photos, but not only had trouble setting it up (cross bar too tight and the hub pole system seems like a big puzzle that would drive me crazy at the end of a long day or if I had to set up in the dark), the stretchy cord inside the poles had many flaws, the zipper stuck and was difficult to work, and most of all, OMG, it felt like it was made of paper! I really wanted to like this tent!

I am back to looking at TarpTent. The new Moment DW or Notch. Having lived in the old Moment for years, at least I know what I am getting and the new design seems to have fixed a lot of the problems. The Notch also looks good, now that I know you can buy optional poles if you do not want to use your trekking poles. Both are double walled. Does anyone here have experience with the Notch? The only complaint I have come across is that floor space is smaller than the Moment. Since the Moment is actually too big for me, I think that a smaller tent actually is better for me.

Still looking at the MSR Hubba NX. Unfortunately my local REI does not have one in the store. I may have to wait until the sale (20% off for members) to buy one to try.

Other option, is to seal the floor of my old tent (both sides) and limp through another backpack season and see what next year brings.
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Re: Tents, tents, oh, what tent?

Postby TahoeJeff » Tue Mar 08, 2016 10:38 am

I really like my TarpTent ProTrail! It sets up super quick with trekking poles, is roomy for this six footer and held up solid during rain in Deso and Hoover. It is front entry as opposed to side, but I didn't have a problem with that. And only 26 ounces....
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Re: Tents, tents, oh, what tent?

Postby maverick » Tue Mar 08, 2016 11:07 am

Other option, is to seal the floor of my old tent (both sides) and limp through another backpack season and see what next year brings.


I see you in your Moment Daisy until it falls apart, which may not be for a couple of years. :)
HST= Wilderness Adventurer who knows no bounds, except for their own imagination.

Have a safer backcountry experience by using the HST ReConn Form 2.0, named after Larry Conn, a HST member: http://reconn.org
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Re: Tents, tents, oh, what tent?

Postby FeetFirst » Tue Mar 08, 2016 5:16 pm

Wandering Daisy wrote:
The Notch also looks good, now that I know you can buy optional poles if you do not want to use your trekking poles.


The optional poles are nowhere near as sturdy as trekking poles. Yes they'll work, but I would not want to rely on them in anything beyond a breeze. They'll actually flex just from tightening stake & guy points. Furthermore, without the option to adjust the height of the poles like you would with adjustable trekking poles, setting up on uneven & soft ground, holes, etc. will be difficult to get a nice taut pitch.
I'm still rather convinced that you can achieve more than you've ever dreamed of if you just lower your standards.
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Re: Tents, tents, oh, what tent?

Postby tomba » Tue Mar 08, 2016 11:03 pm

Wandering Daisy wrote:I am back to looking at TarpTent. The new Moment DW or Notch.


I have the original single-wall Moment and later I bought Notch. I like the Notch. It is lighter (no pole), flexible, because it has separate mesh and fly, and it has wide entrances on both sides. It is easier to shake the fly dry after detaching the mesh/floor. Also, one can set up the fly higher or lower trading off ventilation for wind protection.

Sometimes, when there are no bugs, I set the fly with no mesh, and use the mesh/floor as a ground sheet under my inflatable pad to protect it. Sometimes I set the fly with both vestibules wide open, and only the roof "stripe" overhead - sleeping almost under the stars. If the wind picks up, I simply close some of the four halves of the vestibules (no need to close them all) at night, without fully getting out of the sleeping bag. Only one half of the vestibule wall has the guy line, but I attached lines to the other halves.

Once I set up camp on top of McGee pass (got there after sunset). There was seemingly no room for the tent, so I set up the ground sheet near a rock to shield from any wind, and used the fly as a cover or a bivvy. Then I propped one side up with a pole, then another, then I found that, after clearing a few rocks, I was able to erect the fly around the sleeping spot - I had the full tent set up.

A down side is that it takes a little longer to set up. A bigger down side is that it is harder to adjust the position of the tent, because there are more stakes to move and the vestibule stakes have to be more precisely positioned than the remaining stakes (although it is not as bad as for TarpTent StratoSpire 2, that I also have for family trips), which sometimes is a trouble due to rocks that have to be avoided. By the way, with both Notch and StratoSpire I always use the apex pull-outs, because they allow me to open both halves of the vestibules and they increase stability. If the sleeping spot is very small, that I can't shift up/down/left/right, I set up the floor, mark the corners, then carefully set up the fly over the floor making sure that it lines up correctly.

The trekking poles are easy to remove if you want to hike and leave the tent behind. You can easily tighten the apex pull-outs after the tent does down to keep it taunt, if you want.

Click to enlarge photos.

Wide open, floor/mesh used as ground sheet:
DSC14534-camp-small.jpeg


On top of McGee Pass. Note that there was no room for one vestibule next to the rock - I set it up "squished" (and closed, to protect from the wind). You can see my short (head to hip length) inflatable pad, supplemented by a short foam pad - soft, but if inflatable fails I have at least some foam pad (although too short by itself), and I can use the foam pad for sitting on rocks, etc.
DSC16445-mcgee-pass-camp-small.jpeg
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Re: Tents, tents, oh, what tent?

Postby wanderin.jack » Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:30 am

I've had my BA fly creek 2 is some fierce cold rain and hail and it always stay dry. I had a zipper problem and sent it back to BA and they sent me a whole new tent! They kinda made a friend for life out of me.


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