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Locked ammo box for bear cannister?

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Re: Locked ammo box for bear cannister?

Postby Tom_H » Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:54 pm

I think there are two issues. The first is that the bear can get a bite on it and (particularly a Grizzly) crush it. The second is that ammo cans are relatively heavy. I used to use them for gear when canoe camping though back before dry bags came along. They kept stuff dry and tied in to the thwarts very securely.



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Re: Locked ammo box for bear cannister?

Postby dooder » Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:26 pm

Your right about the cylinder shape being strong. I think on one of the government sites is where I read the smell containment/ air tight issue is important. It said to put anything with a scent like soap inside the containers. I will just get both and bring them as needed depending on where I'm going. As far as weight its not really an issue for me the worst death hike I've ever been on was like a 60 or 70 pound pack in 115 degree heat by Palm Springs 4th of July no problem for me. I ended up carrying my bigger weaker friends stuff for them. :D I'm glad people didn't think I'm just trying to make up my own rules. I misread a weird article about modified approved cannisters. If you Google "ammo cans for bear box" the PDF should be there. I'm going to follow the rules, I was just driving at all bear canisters started as homemade prototypes in all likelihood. Ive been building houses and fixing them for over ten years. A bear cannister is elementary stuff. First and foremost im just going to follow the rules as they apply and bring the legal bear cannister where its needed. Thanks again for all the quick replies people! It gives me time to get it in the mail before I leave in case we have to go somewhere besides piute pass. Jayson
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Re: Locked ammo box for bear cannister?

Postby longri » Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:27 pm

Yeah, no shit. There's no way a steel box is going to weigh less than a carbon fiber cylinder. The only reason to carry an ammo box, other that you have an abnormally flat back, is that you just plain like ammo boxes. They're military and American and stuff.

I'd rather carry a plain nylon sack. Or if bears or mice are an issue, a kevlar one. But land managers recognize that the average backpacker intelligence is less than the average ursine one. So the ultra-stong rigid, approved bear canister is the rule. Suck it up!
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Re: Locked ammo box for bear cannister?

Postby rayfound » Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:13 am

WarrenFork wrote:If you're doing the trip over Piute Pass from North Lake that you describe in your other thread, there is no bear cannister requirement in force in that area. So you could use whatever food storage method you wish without worrying about a fine.

I've been going into Humphreys Basin for 40 years and I've never seen a bear there.


I've also never seen a Bear there.

And technically, yes, bear cans are not required - however: in most of the areas, there simply are not any trees to do other bear-safe food storage. So a bearcan is really the only option.

Also, Bearcans are not remotely odor-proof or airtight. The BearVaults for sure are not. The reason anything with scent goes in is that you don't want a bear tearing up a backpack to get a cherry-chapstick or your toothpaste - it isn't about keeping them from smelling things, it is about keeping them from getting what they smell.
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Re: Locked ammo box for bear cannister?

Postby longri » Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:59 am

rayfound wrote:Also, Bearcans are not remotely odor-proof or airtight.

Bearikades, when new at least, have an air tight seal.

Odor proof is a different problem since the outside of the canister probably has a residual food odor. And anyway, bears probably know by sight what a bear canister is and what it might contain.
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Re: Locked ammo box for bear cannister?

Postby WarrenFork » Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:40 am

longri wrote:But land managers recognize that the average backpacker intelligence is less than the average ursine one.


And as far as the NPS goes, most of the local ones I know also recognize that the average intelligence of the policy-making bureaucrats at Pacific West Regional on Bush St in San Francisco is pretty far south of both.
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Re: Locked ammo box for bear cannister?

Postby rayfound » Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:01 pm

longri wrote:Bearikades, when new at least, have an air tight seal.
.


OK, sure - you cut off my comment about Bearvault NOT being air tight. The Bearikade may be - but my point was simply that air/odor tight is not the primary goal of a bearcan.
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Re: Locked ammo box for bear cannister?

Postby longri » Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:45 pm

rayfound wrote:
longri wrote:Bearikades, when new at least, have an air tight seal.
.


OK, sure - you cut off my comment about Bearvault NOT being air tight. The Bearikade may be - but my point was simply that air/odor tight is not the primary goal of a bearcan.

Sorry, I really didn't mean to misquote you or misconstrue what you posted. I was just trying to add some information.

For posterity:

rayfound wrote:Also, Bearcans are not remotely odor-proof or airtight. The BearVaults for sure are not. The reason anything with scent goes in is that you don't want a bear tearing up a backpack to get a cherry-chapstick or your toothpaste - it isn't about keeping them from smelling things, it is about keeping them from getting what they smell.
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Re: Locked ammo box for bear cannister?

Postby Brien » Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:54 pm

Aside from all the points above I can't get past the weight difference. Why you'd want to carry a 4 lb. ammo can over a 2.5 lb. bear canister bewilders me. All I'm ever trying to do is to forego "luxuries" to save weight.
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bearikades NOT airtight

Postby paul » Sat Oct 10, 2015 3:50 pm

I think it should be clarified that Bearikades are not airtight or watertight, just so no one gets into trouble by using one in a way that relies on it being airtight or watertight. The manufacturer uses the words " moisture resistant" in describing the seal. Some users have reported leaks after a rainy night; mine have not leaked but I've never had them heavily rained on. But I would not submerge it and expect to keep the contents dry.
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Re: Locked ammo box for bear cannister?

Postby rlown » Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:57 pm

turn your can upside down in a rainstorm on a well drained area so if you have an old seal that needs to be replaced, or 3, it'll stay dry. I know mine is airtight still. When i get home back to sea level and open it, there's a pretty good WHOOOSH that happens. :)

At least it doesn't try and crush itself like all the empty water bottles on the back seat making crackling sounds.

I love the elevation changes. Always fun to watch.
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Re: bearikades NOT airtight

Postby longri » Sat Oct 10, 2015 11:03 pm

paul wrote:I think it should be clarified that Bearikades are not airtight or watertight, just so no one gets into trouble by using one in a way that relies on it being airtight or watertight. The manufacturer uses the words " moisture resistant" in describing the seal. Some users have reported leaks after a rainy night; mine have not leaked but I've never had them heavily rained on. But I would not submerge it and expect to keep the contents dry.

Gets into trouble? You mean like, using one as a personal flotation device or something?

My Bearikade -- when it was new -- was most obviously, undeniably and reliably air tight. So water tight it must have been too. It hardly ever rains in the Sierra beyond relatively brief thunderstorms so I don't recall it ever being tested. Now that the seals have shrunk and cracked it isn't tight in any way and may eventually develop a loose rattle to the lid. But if I replaced the seals or had maintained them better in the first place with an appropriate grease I think my can would again/still be air tight.

Wild Ideas doesn't sell the seals though. I'd have to size them and source them myself, something I'll probably never get around to doing.
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