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ursack

Postby The hermit » Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:28 pm

Is anyone using the new ursack s29? Did you buy the aluminium liner? How thick is it? Why not buy a roll of sheet metal from the lumber yard?



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Re: ursack

Postby hikin_jim » Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:11 pm

I want one, but I haven't come up with sufficient justification yet. (I have an older green one)

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Re: ursack

Postby John Harper » Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:06 pm

I bought one of the straw colored (Vectran??) ones from a member on another site. Emailed ursack and they said it was fine for use. Saw a couple through hikers with the newer, white fabric bags. Only difference beside that was they seemed to use a thicker cord to tie the bag. I used mine at Cottonwood Lakes and it was fine. Of course, no bear encounters, only marmots and chipmunks.

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Re: ursack

Postby hikin_jim » Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:45 am

John Harper wrote:I bought one of the straw colored (Vectran??) ones from a member on another site. Emailed ursack and they said it was fine for use. Saw a couple through hikers with the newer, white fabric bags. Only difference beside that was they seemed to use a thicker cord to tie the bag. I used mine at Cottonwood Lakes and it was fine. Of course, no bear encounters, only marmots and chipmunks.

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I've got the straw colored Vectran model and the green colored one that came out later which I believe is Spectra. The Spectra seems quite a bit more durable to me. I use the green one and let my friends borrow the older Vectran one.

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Re: ursack

Postby HikeSierraNevada » Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:21 am

FYI: Only the newest model S29 with spectra thread is officially approved by the Interagency Grizzly Bear Committee (IGBC). Ursack can do a retrofit on earlier white models (I have 2 of them) but other colors indicate they're probably too old to retrofit. Watch out that you don't buy a used Ursack Minor, which is intended for critter protection, not bears.

As for the aluminum liner, I have them for when I'm in serious bear country where the risk justifies the extra weight. Otherwise I use an unlined Ursack, even if nothing is required. I'm a DIYer but elected to just cough up the money rather than shop for the perfect thickness of sheet metal (large size sheets), do the cutting and grinding to make it work, and then store the excess sheet metal. Its an easy project, just weigh it against the value of your time. You can figure out the correct thickness using the weight of the liner, sorry I threw out my calcs long ago. I also evaluated titanium against the aluminum, but Ti didn't make good sense in this case.

Ursack is on the verge of growing very fast if SEKI and Yosemite and other National Parks start respecting their new IGBC certification. Personally, I have mixed feelings about this because an Ursack require more skill to use correctly than a canister, and I don't have a lot of confidence in the general public using them effectively 100% of the time. All it takes is one or two failures that Rangers will be happy to spread on the internet and it could be all over. I hope I'm wrong and this lighter solution becomes a viable option. Time will tell.
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Re: ursack

Postby SSSdave » Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:09 am

I own two Garcia's, the original Ursack, that newer Ursack, (neither with the insert) and use all of them depending on circumstance.

Not a fan of SIBBG Ursack decisions. That said, the organization otherwise has performed a very useful and commendable service thus deserve that recognition. However they obviously have members that from the beginning hated the Ursack concept with passion and like a bulldog clamping on a bone are never likely to be persuaded otherwise unless they get beaten over the head with a stick.

http://ursack.blogspot.com/
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Re: ursack

Postby AlmostThere » Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:17 am

You can beat me over a head with a stick til I'm dead but I will always have doubts that any fabric bag will be any good against a truly habituated bear. Because once they get their teeth in it, they'll be on it for hours and hours until they can tear it open or take it away. That's been the case a number of times per rangers working in Yosemite who have experience in the matter of ursack vs. Yosemite bear.

I have no doubt that it will be quite useful elsewhere, such as the Sespe where you will be lucky to even see the bears, as they have not yet figured out how wonderful a granola bar can be.
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Re: ursack

Postby SSSdave » Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:24 pm

Unfortunately it has been difficult to believe evidence given history of those making decisions. Quite recall one of the early so-called failures on the web where the bag looked like someone connected a rope up to the back of their truck then dragged an Ursack full of large rocks some miles on a road claiming a bear had done it... haha.

snippet from link:

There is no such thing as a bear proof container—all canisters have failed at one time or another. SIBBG refuses to produce evidence of these alleged Ursack failures, but we know from SIBBG’s written description that in two cases bears got no food, and in two cases the problem was user error—the Ursacks were not torn and could be effectively used again today. Because we don’t have the evidence, we don’t know what happened in the other two incidents.
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Re: ursack

Postby The hermit » Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:17 pm

I don't frequent sespe or Yosemite. Hopefully the ursack will gain approval but it seems like user error is a big factor. Nothing good about people just leaving food on the ground in a bag. Seems like it could be used safely on less popular trails as long as you do it right.
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