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Why not Clipping to Half-Dome Cables

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Re: Why not Clipping to Half-Dome Cables

Postby Vaca Russ » Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:57 pm

John Dittli wrote:But even then, there has been paraplegic: assents of ElCap, trans Sierra skis and a winter descent of the Bloody Couloir to name a few.


John, don't forget about paraplegics peak bagging Clouds Rest! :) :) :)

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=8330

-Russ
” Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports … all others are games.”- Ernest Hemingway



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Re: Why not Clipping to Half-Dome Cables

Postby John Dittli » Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:16 pm

Very inspiring Russ, what a great adventure to be involved in! Thank you for posting the link.

As well, my apologies to the op for hijacking the thread....
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Re: Why not Clipping to Half-Dome Cables

Postby rlown » Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:21 pm

The OP was from Canada, with his family. look at the original post (Sun Aug 14, 2011). So, we're waxing philosophic here. maybe waning...

It would be an interesting play to not put up the cables.
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Re: Why not Clipping to Half-Dome Cables

Postby John Dittli » Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:41 pm

Waning for sure LOL.

It would probably take a "perfect storm" of high level NPS managers ready for retirement to put an end to the cables.
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Re: Why not Clipping to Half-Dome Cables

Postby LMBSGV » Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:10 pm

It would probably take a "perfect storm" of high level NPS managers ready for retirement to put an end to the cables.

:) Right. But then I'm someone who also agrees with removing the cables and knows it will probably never happen anymore than the dam at Hetch Hetchy.
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Re: Why not Clipping to Half-Dome Cables

Postby rlown » Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:13 pm

both HH and the cables at one pull? that'd be nice. just dreaming now.
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Re: Why not Clipping to Half-Dome Cables

Postby longri » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:02 am

John Dittli wrote:Just because something "already exists", doesn't make removing it "exclusionary". Precedence have already been set regarding the removal or discontinued use of many such facilities throughout the Sierra....

Would removing the cables decrease the numbers? Yep. Are the numbers already being decreased through "artificial" means by the NPS? Yep.

If a type of existing access is eliminated then by definition there is an exlusion. Let's not get bogged down in semantics.

The question is, is excluding hikers from Half Dome justified?

John Dittli wrote:Do the cables need to be removed to comply with the Wilderness Act? Arguable.

But that's what you're arguing, although I haven't actually seen what your rationale is. In what way would the continued existence of the Half Dome cables harm the wilderness? Why is it different than the hundreds of miles of trails or all of the constructed bridges across rivers?

John Dittli wrote:National Parks and Wilderness Areas, cannot be, nor should they be, everything for everybody.

Nobody is making this argument. We're simply talking about where the line should be drawn in this one case.
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Re: Why not Clipping to Half-Dome Cables

Postby John Dittli » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:35 am

longri wrote:
John Dittli wrote:
The question is, is excluding hikers from Half Dome justified?



Actual, no; the question was "is removing the cables from Half Dome justified". It has now been established (several times) that removing the cables excludes no one, it merely changes the form of access. As someone once said; "if you can get up Half Dome on the cables, you are physically capable of climbing it without" or something like that. Or, when you close two lanes of the freeway, it doesn't exclude anyone. As far as I know "Cable walkers" are not a represented or recognized user group.And yes, there is justification both in the Wilderness Act and the Organic Act to remove the cables. But it is, and would be, arguable.

But to also address the question you keep referring to; "is excluding hikers from Half Dome justified?". No, that is why no one has ever suggest "excluding hikers" or anyone else from Half Dome or any other peaks for that matter. Though there are circumstances where this could be suggested.

Is there justification to reduce the numbers of hikers, the answer is yes. There is also justification in both the Wilderness Act and the Organic Act (also arguable). These are the tools used to currently reduced numbers on Half Dome and and in many other areas throughout the Wilderness System.
Last edited by John Dittli on Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why not Clipping to Half-Dome Cables

Postby longri » Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:41 pm

John Dittli wrote:And yes, there is justification both in the Wilderness Act and the Organic Act to remove the cables.

What is the justification?
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Re: Why not Clipping to Half-Dome Cables

Postby maverick » Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:03 pm

Fun conversation but getting way off the OP's intended subject matter. Please start
a separate thread in which you can addressing questions or concerns you may have
on related or unrelated issues that have nothing to do with the original content of this
particular thread. Thanks
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Re: Why not Clipping to Half-Dome Cables

Postby John Dittli » Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:53 pm

Wrong "clipping", my apologies for the :soapbox:

John
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Re: Why not Clipping to Half-Dome Cables

Postby longri » Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:22 pm

Just when we were getting to the good part!
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