Re: Why not Clipping to Half-Dome Cables
Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:47 am
Here I thought this thread was about "clipping the cables", preferably where they attach to the rock, once and for all. This would solve the entire issue(s)!
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I disagree with this. Lumping the Half Dome cables into the broader category of via ferrata is naive. The cables route on Half Dome is relatively low angle and interrupted by slats of wood and usually lots of soft people. So the fall will not likely be injurious to either the falling person or their carabiner.polemonium wrote:The problem with using static webbing on a via ferrata isn't just that your carabiner or other gear might break, but that if you fall, the fall factor can be very high (see above) and it could severely injure you. Climbers have tested even short falls (couple of feet) on static webbing and it hurts a lot and puts a lot of force on the gear. See myth 6 at . Some might argue that having the clip in is still better than nothing; I don't really agree because I think safety gear that doesn't properly protect gives a false sense of security. If you want to clip in, the right thing would be to use a load limiter like in a via ferrata set.
You should at least quote the guy (Ken M).Wandering Daisy wrote:Previously in this thread, someone said that climbing gyms use static ropes (true) and that is why a static clip is OK. Climbing gyms use static ropes for "top roping", the climber is always below the rope and a fall is limited to inches or maybe a foot or so. If you "lead climb" at a gym, you bring your own DYNAMIC rope for that because a fall is a leader fall, from above the protection point.
You may be "glad you clipped", but all that is a false sense of security. Had you fallen your tune may be different.
I will stand by my comment that if you feel you need to clip, you SHOULD NOT be on that climb! If you DO clip, use a dynamic system clip.
I think his point is valid. You're not taking a vertical fall on the cables route.Ken M wrote:Static lines are not being used for long distant falls, we're talking a short distance, sliding on rock.
Remembering that ALL top ropes at commercial climbing gyms are static, with similar fall distances and stresses, this should be quite safe.
It would at that!John Dittli wrote:Here I thought this thread was about "clipping the cables", preferably where they attach to the rock, once and for all. This would solve the entire issue(s)!
I'm not convinced Clouds rest would be overrun if the cables were removed from Half Dome. People have to "tag" 1/2 Dome because it's iconic, not solely for the view. If it were ultimately the view they were after, they would realize the view is just as good or better from other summits nearby and those summits would already be just as busy.longri wrote:It would at that!John Dittli wrote:Here I thought this thread was about "clipping the cables", preferably where they attach to the rock, once and for all. This would solve the entire issue(s)!
But I've been up Half Dome by many ways numerous times. I've had my share of it. I think it would be selfish of me to now deny that adventure to many people. I've seen people stoked to be going up there and it's no different than how I feel when pushing whatever my meager envelope is.
Besides, if the cables are taken down Clouds Rest will be overrun.
You're probably right about Cloud's Rest. But I don't agree that removing the cables "simply makes it more difficult". Doing that would exclude a huge class of people who would otherwise derive great satisfaction from climbing Half Dome. I'm no different than them. I've climbed Half Dome because it's Half Dome, just like all of the tourista bucket-listers that we're so fond of denigrating. My motives are not more pure. The only difference is that instead of only hiking up I can also climb it in rock shoes... well, at least provided nobody decides to clip all of the bolts.John Dittli wrote:No, like Whitney, it's on most everyones "bucket list". Removing the cables doesn't deny access to Half Dome!!!! It simply makes it more difficult. If we are to use ease of access as criteria to manage iconic landscapes, then perhaps we should just put a tram up the thing....
It's exclusionary now because the cables already exist.John Dittli wrote:It would only exclude them if they were unwilling to learn how to climb low angle slab or unable to have a friend or guide take them up there. Again, using that criteria, we are "excluding" all those that can't do the cables by not having a tram. As well, we are "excluding" people from all the summits that don't have cables or trams. Should all the peaks have cables and trams? If not, why should Half Dome be any different?