Why not Clipping to Half-Dome Cables

Topics related to peak bagging, rock climbing and bouldering in the foothills and high country of the Sierra Nevada. Be sure to also check out the Information Booth forum category to learn from / see if you can contribute to a profile for High Sierra 13'ers, 14'ers and cross country passes.
User avatar
Vaca Russ
Topix Expert
Posts: 809
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 3:12 pm
Experience: Level 4 Explorer
Location: The Nut Tree

Re: Why not Clipping to Half-Dome Cables

Post by Vaca Russ »

John Dittli wrote: But even then, there has been paraplegic: assents of ElCap, trans Sierra skis and a winter descent of the Bloody Couloir to name a few.
John, don't forget about paraplegics peak bagging Clouds Rest! :) :) :)

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=8330" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

-Russ
"...Or have you only comfort, and the lust for comfort, that stealthy thing that enters the house a guest, and then becomes a host and then a master?"

Kahil Gibran.
User avatar
John Dittli
Topix Expert
Posts: 479
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:38 am
Experience: N/A
Location: Crooked Creek
Contact:

Re: Why not Clipping to Half-Dome Cables

Post by John Dittli »

Very inspiring Russ, what a great adventure to be involved in! Thank you for posting the link.

As well, my apologies to the op for hijacking the thread....
Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
User avatar
rlown
Topix Docent
Posts: 8225
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:00 pm
Experience: Level 4 Explorer
Location: Wilton, CA

Re: Why not Clipping to Half-Dome Cables

Post by rlown »

The OP was from Canada, with his family. look at the original post (Sun Aug 14, 2011). So, we're waxing philosophic here. maybe waning...

It would be an interesting play to not put up the cables.
User avatar
John Dittli
Topix Expert
Posts: 479
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:38 am
Experience: N/A
Location: Crooked Creek
Contact:

Re: Why not Clipping to Half-Dome Cables

Post by John Dittli »

Waning for sure LOL.

It would probably take a "perfect storm" of high level NPS managers ready for retirement to put an end to the cables.
Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
User avatar
LMBSGV
Topix Fanatic
Posts: 1013
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:42 pm
Experience: Level 4 Explorer
Location: San Geronimo, CA
Contact:

Re: Why not Clipping to Half-Dome Cables

Post by LMBSGV »

It would probably take a "perfect storm" of high level NPS managers ready for retirement to put an end to the cables.
:) Right. But then I'm someone who also agrees with removing the cables and knows it will probably never happen anymore than the dam at Hetch Hetchy.
I don’t need a goal destination. I need a destination that meets my goals.

http://laurencebrauer.com
User avatar
rlown
Topix Docent
Posts: 8225
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:00 pm
Experience: Level 4 Explorer
Location: Wilton, CA

Re: Why not Clipping to Half-Dome Cables

Post by rlown »

both HH and the cables at one pull? that'd be nice. just dreaming now.
User avatar
longri
Topix Fanatic
Posts: 1082
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:13 am
Experience: N/A

Re: Why not Clipping to Half-Dome Cables

Post by longri »

John Dittli wrote:Just because something "already exists", doesn't make removing it "exclusionary". Precedence have already been set regarding the removal or discontinued use of many such facilities throughout the Sierra....

Would removing the cables decrease the numbers? Yep. Are the numbers already being decreased through "artificial" means by the NPS? Yep.
If a type of existing access is eliminated then by definition there is an exlusion. Let's not get bogged down in semantics.

The question is, is excluding hikers from Half Dome justified?
John Dittli wrote:Do the cables need to be removed to comply with the Wilderness Act? Arguable.
But that's what you're arguing, although I haven't actually seen what your rationale is. In what way would the continued existence of the Half Dome cables harm the wilderness? Why is it different than the hundreds of miles of trails or all of the constructed bridges across rivers?
John Dittli wrote:National Parks and Wilderness Areas, cannot be, nor should they be, everything for everybody.
Nobody is making this argument. We're simply talking about where the line should be drawn in this one case.
User avatar
John Dittli
Topix Expert
Posts: 479
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:38 am
Experience: N/A
Location: Crooked Creek
Contact:

Re: Why not Clipping to Half-Dome Cables

Post by John Dittli »

longri wrote:
John Dittli wrote:
The question is, is excluding hikers from Half Dome justified?
Actual, no; the question was "is removing the cables from Half Dome justified". It has now been established (several times) that removing the cables excludes no one, it merely changes the form of access. As someone once said; "if you can get up Half Dome on the cables, you are physically capable of climbing it without" or something like that. Or, when you close two lanes of the freeway, it doesn't exclude anyone. As far as I know "Cable walkers" are not a represented or recognized user group.And yes, there is justification both in the Wilderness Act and the Organic Act to remove the cables. But it is, and would be, arguable.

But to also address the question you keep referring to; "is excluding hikers from Half Dome justified?". No, that is why no one has ever suggest "excluding hikers" or anyone else from Half Dome or any other peaks for that matter. Though there are circumstances where this could be suggested.

Is there justification to reduce the numbers of hikers, the answer is yes. There is also justification in both the Wilderness Act and the Organic Act (also arguable). These are the tools used to currently reduced numbers on Half Dome and and in many other areas throughout the Wilderness System.
Last edited by John Dittli on Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
User avatar
longri
Topix Fanatic
Posts: 1082
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:13 am
Experience: N/A

Re: Why not Clipping to Half-Dome Cables

Post by longri »

John Dittli wrote:And yes, there is justification both in the Wilderness Act and the Organic Act to remove the cables.
What is the justification?
User avatar
maverick
Forums Moderator
Forums Moderator
Posts: 11821
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:54 pm
Experience: Level 4 Explorer

Re: Why not Clipping to Half-Dome Cables

Post by maverick »

Fun conversation but getting way off the OP's intended subject matter. Please start
a separate thread in which you can addressing questions or concerns you may have
on related or unrelated issues that have nothing to do with the original content of this
particular thread. Thanks
Professional Sierra Landscape Photographer

I don't give out specific route information, my belief is that it takes away from the whole adventure spirit of a trip, if you need every inch planned out, you'll have to get that from someone else.

Have a safer backcountry experience by using the HST ReConn Form 2.0, named after Larry Conn, a HST member: http://reconn.org
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests