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TR: A Trip Gone Bad, Marie Lakes- August 16-18

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Re: TR: A Trip Gone Bad, Marie Lakes- August 16-18

Postby desertdawg » Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:39 pm

maverick wrote:
mkbgdns wrote:
what's a PLB?

PLB: http://www.rei.com/category/40002203

Desertdawg,

Thank you so much for sharing your experience, it is great to read a story that has
a successful ending!! Wish your friend a speedy recovery.
No reception on the sat phones. :\ By any chance do you recall what the makes of
the satellite phones were, Irridium, Globalstar, Inmarsat, or possibly Globalstar?


Globalstar - Apparently there are 15 - 30 minute intervals during a day when satellite phones do not work?



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Re: TR: A Trip Gone Bad, Marie Lakes- August 16-18

Postby desertdawg » Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:00 pm

Jim F wrote:Desertdawg,

JimF

Excellent questions. Don't mind answering. As a matter of fact one of the reasons I wanted to share, so we could all learn a thing or two. I know I did.

Thanks for taking the effort to share this lengthy and valuable TR.

In retrospect and with a somewhat clearer vision of what actually transpired (but certainly without all the facts), one observer might note:

(1) Greg seemed to have overestimated his ability, while you did not.

Greg has always had more confidence in his scrambling abilities than I do. I don't think it was above his ability

(2) Greg seemed to have overestimated the urgency of his injury (which a guy might be prone to do when the injury involves his *****!)

Given the circumstances, it was a reasonable assumption to believe a bladder or kidney was damaged. Neither one of us knew if there was internal bleeding. We assumed the worst.

(3) It took 21 hours to transport Greg to Minaret Vista when possibly he could have been back much faster to the Silver Lake Resort by walking 12 miles.

Walking was never considered. We wanted to slow heart rate and thus blood loss. We did not know the extent of the injury since we could not see it, just blood coming from where blood shouldn't be coming from. Even after surgery, 48 hours after the injury, there was still minor uncontrollable blood loss.

(4) Thousands of dollars were probably spent for the helos. Additionally,SAR members are frequently exposed to some risk on their missions and their time is consumed when perhaps it could be better utilized elsewhere.

Given the fact there was was possible internal bleeding, the helo was probably the best choice. I explained the fall and injury to SAR multiple times. It was their decision.When you tell just about anyone that there is bleeding coming out of a **** it raises concern.

Two questions for possible thought/discussion:

(1) Would Greg still have attempted to climb the ridge if you had not been readily available (i.e. he was hiking solo)?

He may have. After this accident he has told me he will not be attempting such climbs again.

(2) If you had a cell phone, satellite phone, SPOT, PLB,... in your possession, would you have attempted to climb the ridge as well?

I know my limits. I would not have tried.

Sincerely,

Jim

PS: I apologize, but I am still struggling to figure out an optimal strategy for risk management in the backcountry.

No apology needed. Discussion is good. Thanks for asking questions.
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Re: TR: A Trip Gone Bad, Marie Lakes- August 16-18

Postby maverick » Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:02 pm

Yeap, that's what I thought. :\ Won't be restarting my services with them, will have
to go to Iridium.
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Re: TR: A Trip Gone Bad, Marie Lakes- August 16-18

Postby maverick » Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:28 pm

Sorry, but my conclusion would be different from Jim's.
Overestimated his abilities, why? He could not have known the rock was going to give
way, it is something that happens to the best of rock climbers or mountaineers.
No way did he overestimate his injuries! He could not self diagnose himself, have you
torn your urethra? I have, and it is quite painful, and the last thing you want to do is
walk, especially 12 miles. When someone sees that much blood his partner needs to
do exactly what they did, last thing you want is shock to set in making the situation
worse.
This is what SAR is for, accidents do happen, and he was not able to walk out, so they
took the only action they could in this situation, and a wise one.
HST= Wilderness Adventurer who knows no bounds, except for their own imagination.

Have a safer backcountry experience by using the HST ReConn Form 2.0, named after Larry Conn, a HST member: http://reconn.org
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Re: TR: A Trip Gone Bad, Marie Lakes- August 16-18

Postby ndwoods » Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:59 pm

You did right in getting help!
I work at 911 and you would not believe how many wait until it's too late! I have heard more than one last dying breath needlessly over the years...good job on your part!:)
dee
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Re: TR: A Trip Gone Bad, Marie Lakes- August 16-18

Postby Tom_H » Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:55 am

I am so glad everything turned out alright. In my own mind, the reason your friend survived is because you were with him. In the last 4 months we have read on HST about 5 different people who perished or went missing in the wilderness. What did they all have in common? Each was by him or herself. Hiking/backpacking/climbing solo involves seriously more risk than if done with others. I am not saying it is necessarly wrong, but statistically there is immensely less chance of survival if one is alone and incurrs substantial injury.

What are the things that increase the chances of survival if you do go solo?

1) Write a detailed trip plan of everywhere you intend to go and everywhere you might go. Calculate distance and elevation changes for every point along the way. For every point on the route, know the easiest evacuation route, but also every possible evacuation route in case fire blocks the primary evac. route. Leave this trip plan with at least 2 people with a date and time to contact SAR if you do not report in.

2) Have not only extensive experience, but also adequate training. I have a friend with a lot of experience. She just went on her first NOLS trip and learned all kinds of things she did not know before. Even experience and training are not guarantees. For many years I was a professional guide, instructor trainer, and then a regional director and my training was in the NOLS methodology. Nevertheless, there were times on technical climbs of 14ers when the weather changed severely and instantly, bringing on hypothermia. Had I been solo, I would have died. Likewise, I have saved the lives of compatriots.

3) Remember that staying on-trail increases the chance that someone will find you if you are injured. Staying on more frequently traveled trails increases that chance even more. The more remote the location into which you wander, the less chance you have of being found.

4) GPS, SPOT, PLB increase chances of survival greatly, but they are not a guarantee. If your device is at camp and you have a compound fracture of the leg while getting water 200 yards away, you may not be able to get to the device. Batteries can fail and you may be in the shadow of a range that blocks the signal.

If you don't have someone to go with you, remember, you can always post here on HST and ask whether someone is interested in going with you. (Choose wisely though.)

The first rule of survival: Avoid Survival Situations!
The second rule of survival: There is Safety in Numbers!
BSA Motto: Be Prepared!
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Re: TR: A Trip Gone Bad, Marie Lakes- August 16-18

Postby maverick » Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:56 pm

Here is the write up in the Sierrawave: http://www.sierrawave.net/26050/many-calls-for-mono/
HST= Wilderness Adventurer who knows no bounds, except for their own imagination.

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