Gould / Dragon Pass?

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fishmonger
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Re: Gould / Dragon Pass?

Post by fishmonger »

Ska-T wrote:In July 1977 one of my older brothers, his 7 yr old son Alex, and I (Scott) did a loop from Onion Valley to Golden Trout Lake, to Dragon Lake via Dragon Pass,
But that was 1977 when the mountains weren't as dangerous and difficult :D When in 2009 I took my 11 year old twins on the JMT people threatened me to contact child services for abusing them (bottom of Silver Pass, you know, one of those really gnarly stretches of trail).
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Re: Gould / Dragon Pass?

Post by RoguePhotonic »

That's right Peter! Your abusing your kids by taking them into some of the most beautiful country there is and getting them good exercise! We all know a good healthy and proper life style is to sit on the couch in front of the TV watching reality shows with a Pepsi in one hand and a Big Mac in the other! :D
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Re: Gould / Dragon Pass?

Post by erutan »

Sorry to necro an old thread but I'm pretty certain Ska-T's retro trip report was actually for Gould Pass, not Dragon Pass. Figured it's worth pointing out here for people that do forum searches.
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Re: Gould / Dragon Pass?

Post by Ska-T »

erutan wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:55 am Ska-T's retro trip report was actually for Gould Pass, not Dragon Pass.
Well, Gould Pass = Dragon Pass (which is also implied by the title of this thread). For example, in this early edition Secor book he writes:
Old Secor guide book.jpeg
The older books favor the name Dragon Pass while the newer ones use Gould Pass. For example, here is a map from one of John Robinson's books (Wilderness Press 1974).
Robinson map.jpeg
The pass is actually closer to Dragon Peak than Mt Gould. More importantly, as you can see from the map the name North Dragon Pass makes no sense if there isn't a Dragon Pass. That's why I favor "Dragon Pass" over "Gould Pass", besides being a retro codger.
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erutan
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Re: Gould / Dragon Pass?

Post by erutan »

They aren't the same thing - an "early edition" of Secor shouldn't take precedence over the most recent edition, which clearly disambiguates the two. Here's some excerpts from the entry on Gould Pass from the third edition:
Gould Pass” (3820 m+; 12,720 ft+; 0.3 mi N of Mount Gould; UTM 770717)

“From Golden Trout Lake climb west and then north to a small notch on the ridge between Mount Gould and Dragon Peak, marked by a wooden post. [...] There are two eastern approach variations. One is from the summit of Kearsarge Pass, by skirting the summit of Mount Gould and descending the ridge to the pass. The other is Dragon Pass. Climb the broad talus gully that leads west from Lake 3460 m+ [...]"
It looks like your 1974 map is showing what is now known as Gould Pass, while Secor was referring to what is now known as Dragon Pass. He's had some confusion before (confusing North Col as an alternate name for Cox Col iirc vs a preferable alternative). Note that in the early edition Gould/Dragon is further N than it is in the third. While they are near each other (and not done that often, which probably adds to the confusion) they have completely different ascents & descents as well as locations of the passes themself.

If you just want to combine them into Dragon Pass due to nostalgia that's your call, but I don't think it's useful for people trying to routefind (and explains why some people ended up ascending one pass on the E, traversing the ridge, then dropping down the other to the W etc). I made an entry for Dragon Pass in the XC passes subforum, then an admittedly incomplete one for Gould (thought it links to good beta from a trip report that basically completes it) to match:

http://highsierratopix.com/community/vi ... 31&t=21343
http://highsierratopix.com/community/vi ... 31&t=21351

I started digging into this when getting into a conversation when michaelzim had questions about Gould Pass (which is what led me to this thread):

http://highsierratopix.com/community/vi ... =1&t=21293
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Re: Gould / Dragon Pass?

Post by aqualone »

@erutan ,thanks for your writing on this. your various posts on the gould/dragon pass question is very helpful. Can you specify the exact location of Gould pass, e.g. on a map or the exact coordinates?

It seems that Dragon pass is the true low point on the ridge between Mt Gould and Dragon peak, that pass that is located just south of Dragon peak, and which can be easily located by glancing at a topographic map.

Gould pass seems harder to locate. There are several little sub-peaks and passes between Dragon pass and Mt. Gould. It seems that one of these is Gould pass?
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Re: Gould / Dragon Pass?

Post by erutan »

I've never been over Gould Pass, so I can't locate it specifically on topo. I think I've identified it based on other people's photos and descriptions, but that's the best I can do. I decided to do a write up of it despite a lack of personal experience due to the confusion over it (which I had at first as well!).

I've included GPS coordinates that I took at Dragon Pass on it's page in the XC passes forum which should be accurate to ~13ft according to my phone.
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Re: Gould / Dragon Pass?

Post by aqualone »

For anyone in the future who may be reading this: I took a hike in the area yesterday and I think Gould pass is at 36.7845, -118.3791.
I did NOT go down the chute to dragon lake/Rae lakes; I only hiked up to the pass, then traversed over to the Mt Gould summit, and then went down the main Kearsarge trail back to Onion valley.

The east side of Gould pass is class 1 and very easy class 2. The chute on the west side looks to be class 2 at most. Here is a picture looking down.
IMG_20210620_124153.jpg
The east side is essentially a large bowl/cirque. The west side has several chutes and I think the "true" Gould pass is one closest to the sub-peak on the north side of the Mt Gould summit plateau (the one with the weather station/solar panels and stuff). It shows up on some versions of openstreetmaps (e.g. the one found on Strava)
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Re: Gould / Dragon Pass?

Post by erutan »

@aqualone - thanks for the recon. :)

That picture looks like it's from the same spot as this shot from gould pass https://www.flickr.com/photos/79770146@N05/8603748319/

It looks like it could be a little bit north of this shot of the pass when it still had the wooden stake at it, but that could be positioning on one side of the pass or another: http://highsierratopix.com/community/vi ... 895#p93895

It does look like Gould is simpler but sloggier. At some point it'd be interesting to try and find a better route through the last 200ft or so of gain on Dragon - either the ledges closer in (N) of the terrible chute we went up, or perhaps going a bit past it looking for another.

Dragon pass isn't at the true low point of the pass, but slightly south of it:

dragon zoomed in.png
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