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Conflicting info from rangers

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Re: Conflicting info from rangers

Postby RoguePhotonic » Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:36 pm

Other then the special areas such as Whitney and Half Dome I don't know of any other areas that have limits on day hikes.

It makes sense that the turnover rate is high for these Rangers because among other things it also gets boring in one location. They are limited to the area with only 2 or 3 days off at a time to explore and they sit in the permit stations getting asked the exact same questions. Places like Cedar Grove are also very limited for what the casual tourist types can do so your stuck recommending the same 3 hikes all day long.



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Re: Conflicting info from rangers

Postby oldranger » Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:48 am

Rogue

I spent 7 seasons at the same station, 2 previous stations in overlapping territory--boring not a word I would use to describe any of my time as a backcountry ranger. Every time up Cloud or Deadman canyons was unique from spring snow and new avalanche debris to fall colors and brisk weather. There are still nooks and cranies I left unexplored and remains of lost cow and sheep camps and the camps of native americans that are sinking into the duff but there to be rediscovered.

Maybe I'm just easily amused.

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Re: Conflicting info from rangers

Postby RoguePhotonic » Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:53 am

Your key words are "backcountry Ranger". :D

I was referring to the front country Rangers stuck at the desk telling people all day to go to the same places.
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Re: Conflicting info from rangers

Postby oldranger » Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:11 am

Whoops!

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Re: Conflicting info from rangers

Postby John Dittli » Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:55 am

There isn't much that I can add that George and Mike haven't already expressed. I'm not sure how the Wilderness offices work at SEKI or Yosemite, but I know for the most part the Inyo permit people don't get out all that much (at least not on the clock).

During my tenure as a backcountry ranger at North Cascades National Park, the Wilderness office staff were regularly scheduled for backcountry patrols to learn the park. This was actually a nice job, though low paying, for those wishing a mix of in/out time. People would return year after year to these jobs. This led to a knowledgeable front country staff that had credibility with the public. As well, the climbing rangers and roving rangers, when grounded in the frontcountry due to weather (which was often) would also work the permit office.

As WD stated, it is unfortunate that people can't say "I don't know". I just asked my wife (who ran the wilderness office at NOCA for ten years), what they did if asked a question they didn't know. She looked at me like "that's a stupid question" (a look that is reserved for me), and said they would find the answer!

But back to the OP, I've always assumed that the group size limit is just that, whether spending the night out or not. I'm surprised that Yosemite's is different for day use.
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Re: Conflicting info from rangers

Postby tim » Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:42 pm

RoguePhotonic wrote:Other then the special areas such as Whitney and Half Dome I don't know of any other areas that have limits on day hikes.


Seems that Inyo National Forest impose the same limit on group size for (non-permit) day hikes as for overnight trips:
"Groups cannot be larger than 15 people (includes day use)."
http://www.fs.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsint ... ek%20Trail
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Re: Conflicting info from rangers

Postby AlmostThere » Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:53 pm

tim wrote:
RoguePhotonic wrote:Other then the special areas such as Whitney and Half Dome I don't know of any other areas that have limits on day hikes.


Seems that Inyo National Forest impose the same limit on group size for (non-permit) day hikes as for overnight trips:
"Groups cannot be larger than 15 people (includes day use)."
http://www.fs.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsint ... ek%20Trail


This is the general trend with national forests when I have asked about day group limits.

Interesting that the national parks are less stringent on day use of trails.
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Re: Conflicting info from rangers

Postby Big Ed » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:25 pm

sparky wrote: Apparently they don't know what to do when your starting point is off trail.


I had the counter person at the Sierra National Forest Supervisors office in Clovis do that with a permit once. All of the entry points and destinations have code numbers they are supposed to write in the appropriate spot. Because I was going into Kings Canyon National Park(Tehipite Valley)there was no number for my destination. I told her a few times to write the destination name instead,she writes ? Kings Canyon Park........So I went off with a permit that didn't really say where I was going.
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Re: Conflicting info from rangers

Postby RoguePhotonic » Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:27 am

That's odd that they had no number for it. Normally the trouble I will run into is place names wont be in the computer system so they have to pull out a map broken into a grid of zones with numbers.
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Re: Conflicting info from rangers

Postby gdurkee » Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:03 am

Those zone numbers were set up decades ago. I wonder if they're still used for planning -- hard to believe so. Even then, no one is held to being, ah, "in the zone" except on the USFS side of Whitney. The first draft of the Sequoia Kings wilderness plan had something that implied enforcement based on zones, but it seemed pretty dumb. I'm hopeful it's cut from the next stage of the proposal.

I have long advocated that once you're on the trail, you can go wherever you want.

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