Finding the Floyd Otter Tree - #3 Giant Sequoia

If you've been searching for the best source of information and stimulating discussion related to Spring/Summer/Fall backpacking, hiking and camping in the Sierra Nevada...look no further!
User avatar
maverick
Forums Moderator
Forums Moderator
Posts: 11823
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:54 pm
Experience: Level 4 Explorer

Re: Finding the Floyd Otter Tree - #3 Giant Sequoia

Post by maverick »

Welcome to HST Hardscrabble! Thank you for the information you provided to this thread.
Professional Sierra Landscape Photographer

I don't give out specific route information, my belief is that it takes away from the whole adventure spirit of a trip, if you need every inch planned out, you'll have to get that from someone else.

Have a safer backcountry experience by using the HST ReConn Form 2.0, named after Larry Conn, a HST member: http://reconn.org
User avatar
AfterSeven
Topix Acquainted
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:04 pm
Experience: N/A
Location: California

Re: Finding the Floyd Otter Tree - #3 Giant Sequoia

Post by AfterSeven »

Hi Hardscrabble, Welcome aboard!

What was the ground perimeter height and volume... and diameter at 60/120/180 that you came up with? Did you ever issue a press release? How did you deal with Giant Burns down below in your calculations? Why doesn't the park service acknowledge the tree as #3 or even list it...if you know?

There was a tree listed in Dept of Interior reports from 1900 - 1925 as the "California Tree" in the Garfield Grove with a 30' diameter (presumably at ground level) and 260' high... did you see any sign that this tree had been recognized by previous generations...(Trail Proximity, Plaque Mounts, Carvings in the trunk?)

I'll be sure to check it out when it cools down a bit on the South Fork.

How did you do with the search for the Phantom? Did you end up checking out the large trees of Homers Nose, Board Camp, South Fork and Eden Creek? If so were there any approaches to these groves you found favorable or any approaches you would advise against at all costs? how'd you deal with the low elevation walls of poison oak?

Sorry for all the questions...Cheers!
A7
Enthusiasm is the burning spirit within that says, ‘I can!’ It is the indomitable ‘Yes!’ without which nothing worthwhile is ever accomplished. ~ ROYAL ROBBINS
User avatar
sparky
Topix Fanatic
Posts: 1029
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:01 am
Experience: Level 4 Explorer

Re: Finding the Floyd Otter Tree - #3 Giant Sequoia

Post by sparky »

I have a pretty good idea why this tree is a mystery, and I think it is better that way. :nod:
User avatar
Hardscrabble
Topix Newbie
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:29 pm
Experience: N/A

Re: Finding the Floyd Otter Tree - #3 Giant Sequoia

Post by Hardscrabble »

In answer to Afterseven's questions, the burn was taken care of by treating the lowest cross section of the tree as an ellipse, tapering to a circle at the first break. We had a diameter measured with the theodolite across the tree on the contour & a circumference measured with a tape. It was not a circle. I am more concerned about how to handle the butresses between the upper ground level & the lower ground level. I did the best I could with what I had at the time. I would like to repeat the measurements with someone who is familiar with measuring trees. I didn't take diameters at any specific heights but tried to see where the taper changed slope.

I sent a copy of my calcs to Nate Stevenson at the park & will send them to you if you will get me your e-mail address. call 287-2399.

I found no evidence of previous work around the tree.

We came in from Mt. Home, up the Wishon fork of the Tule to Tuohy Gap & then along Dennison ridge to the saddle & then down to the tree. There is an old trail from Touhy Gap west & down to the South fork (Kaweah) Ranger Station but we missed it along the ridge because we were too high. We didn't find any poison oak until we got way down to the Kaweah, but avoided it by staying on the trail. I have some better info on the old Dennison Trail if you intend to go that way.

Hardscrabble
User avatar
ERIC
Your Humble Host & Forums Administrator
Your Humble Host & Forums Administrator
Posts: 3254
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:13 am
Experience: Level 4 Explorer
Location: between the 916 and 661

Re: Finding the Floyd Otter Tree - #3 Giant Sequoia

Post by ERIC »

http://www.californiareport.org/archive/R201208290850/b" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Good exposure, and good interview. Assuming that was you, lambertiana? :)
New members, please consider giving us an intro!
Follow us on Twitter @HighSierraTopix. Use hashtags #SIERRAPHILE #GotSierra? #GotMountains?
Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HighSierraTopix
User avatar
lambertiana
Topix Regular
Posts: 177
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:13 pm
Experience: N/A
Location: Visalia, CA

Re: Finding the Floyd Otter Tree - #3 Giant Sequoia

Post by lambertiana »

No, that wasn't me.
User avatar
ERIC
Your Humble Host & Forums Administrator
Your Humble Host & Forums Administrator
Posts: 3254
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:13 am
Experience: Level 4 Explorer
Location: between the 916 and 661

Re: Finding the Floyd Otter Tree - #3 Giant Sequoia

Post by ERIC »

Whoops, sorry. But wow, quite the coincidence....scout groups, hidden Sequoia groves...the timing of this thread vs. the NPR piece.... Hopefully you at least see what might have prompted me to try to make that connection.. :D
New members, please consider giving us an intro!
Follow us on Twitter @HighSierraTopix. Use hashtags #SIERRAPHILE #GotSierra? #GotMountains?
Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HighSierraTopix
User avatar
Hetch Hetchy 1900
Topix Newbie
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:14 pm
Experience: N/A

Re: Finding the Floyd Otter Tree - #3 Giant Sequoia

Post by Hetch Hetchy 1900 »

I have seen the references to the "California Tree" in the Garfield Grove in old Interior Department documents. It very well may be the same tree as the Floyd Otter Tree, but who knows for sure?! As I remember, the government documents referred to the "California Tree" as the largest tree in the Garfield Grove. Given that back in those days, more emphasis was placed on base diameter as opposed to calculated volume when determining the relative size of trees, the California Tree and the Otter Tree may very well be the same tree since the photos of the Otter Tree show a large basal swell.

I also wonder why the Park Service does not at least add the Otter Tree to their top ten list, especially when it may be as high as number 3 on the list!
AfterSeven wrote:Hi Hardscrabble, Welcome aboard!

What was the ground perimeter height and volume... and diameter at 60/120/180 that you came up with? Did you ever issue a press release? How did you deal with Giant Burns down below in your calculations? Why doesn't the park service acknowledge the tree as #3 or even list it...if you know?

There was a tree listed in Dept of Interior reports from 1900 - 1925 as the "California Tree" in the Garfield Grove with a 30' diameter (presumably at ground level) and 260' high... did you see any sign that this tree had been recognized by previous generations...(Trail Proximity, Plaque Mounts, Carvings in the trunk?)

I'll be sure to check it out when it cools down a bit on the South Fork.

How did you do with the search for the Phantom? Did you end up checking out the large trees of Homers Nose, Board Camp, South Fork and Eden Creek? If so were there any approaches to these groves you found favorable or any approaches you would advise against at all costs? how'd you deal with the low elevation walls of poison oak?

Sorry for all the questions...Cheers!
A7
User avatar
Treelore
Topix Newbie
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:11 pm
Experience: Level 4 Explorer

Re: Finding the Floyd Otter Tree - #3 Giant Sequoia

Post by Treelore »

Greetings,

My wife and I found and photographed California Tree aka Otter or Unnamed, which we called Firescar, in July 1999. I measured the base with a steel 100 ft tape in 2002 with Dwight Willard after camping overnight at the base of KA. While California-Firescar's ground perimeter compares to the largest specimens known, the DBH just above is not quite as impressive. Viewed from uphill the oval base appears unusually wide. There is alot of taper to the main trunk and if one subtracted the missing scar volume, and added the unimpressive branching, my guess this tree would rank around top twenty 'only'. In 2002 there was an interest in Garfield centered on KA among big tree researchers incl Van Pelt, Sillett, Willard, and Evans partly as a result of the image of KA that I circulated which was taken in 1999 from just uphill of Flint's image appearing on the cover of his first edition. There is a telltale small scar on the uphill bark low down that confirms it is the same tree. KA as Flint notes in his second edition has little taper making its trunk volume quite large.
As far as the Homer's Nose Phantom, Flint obviously was intrigued by possibilities of a large undiscovered specimen somewhere out in the backcountry, and he put HN on the cover of his second edition in that spirit of mystique. Flint told me before he died that he knew HN grove did not have an exceptionally large tree but that the Phantom was in Board Camp Grove. I did locate the BC Phantom with Willard in 2002.
I have been to lower Dillonwood GS regrowth acreage from the south, and to Dennison Ridge from Garfield several times but not yet into upper Dillonwood. Given the grove size I would budget two days on foot to survey it. I heard that the biggest trees were mostly all cut, but how high up have no clue. Last summer I found stumps in upper Atwell at around 7300 ft. I plan to be in upper Dillonwood this July 2019 from out of state. If there is anyone with sufficient GS/Sierras background and interest to join my survey for several days, they can leave their email in a reply to this comment.

Doug
User avatar
suecag
Topix Newbie
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:10 pm
Experience: Level 4 Explorer

Re: Finding the Floyd Otter Tree - #3 Giant Sequoia

Post by suecag »

Doug/Treelore, how did your survey go last year? I've been to King Arthur and California Tree/Floyd Otter and thought about continuing above them and over the ridge to take a look. I've been to lower Dillonwood. I could see sequoias on the ridge above the cut area of Dillonwood and looks like the road continues almost up to them (too much snow/too little time during my visit to go all the way up).
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ethoits, goddard's will, OutdoorRandy and 154 guests