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Cross Country Route

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Re: Cross Country Route

Postby maverick » Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:33 am

No offense Rouge, but some of things your writing is kind of worrisome, and I
am hesitant about giving info on cross country routes to folks who may not understand
the dangers or are overreaching there abilities, because I do not want to contribute
to there injury or death.
You say you haven't done much cross country, 3 days last year, yet now you want to
do 40 days in some of the most difficult sections, even for experience x-country
backpackers!
Martha to Simpson in a day through some of the nastiest bush in SEKI, really? Sure it
can be done by someone with a good solid x-country experience, and can move
fast.
You haven't done much cross country, if any, but class 4-5 routes with a full pack
won't be problem! Really? No offense but that statement alone is very little scary.
"I planned it mostly based on miles alone." Really, what about taking terrain, elevation
into consideration, doesn't speak well to you planning.
"Resupply point are going to be questionable also?", you think, this is part of planning
to.
Sorry, but some of the abilities you presented here are suspect to say the least.
My goal is not to discourage you in any way, but just trying to be safe.
I don't give out specific route information, my belief is that it takes away from the whole adventure spirit of a trip, if you need every inch planned out, you'll have to get that from someone else.

Have a safer backcountry experience by using the HST ReConn Form 2.0, named after Larry Conn, a HST member: http://reconn.org



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Re: Cross Country Route

Postby RoguePhotonic » Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:33 pm

Re Coppermine to colby: In early August 1986, not a particulary big snow year but one with massive avalanches, there was snow in Cloud Canyon almost down to where the Colby pass trail crosses Roaring River at the base of the whaleback


That sounds like an unusual amount of snow for that area in August. After I dropped down into Deadman Canyon on June 30th I went South to Roaring River then into Cloud Canyon and passed that section on July 2nd. The first snow on trail was after Colby Lake as I approached the pass.

Your description of the route of Copper Mine Pass sounds about like what I had planned.

Finally in a humongous snow year like this plan that the n. side of all high n/s passes will have snow into September


Yeah I think bringing an ice axe through most of July will be a good idea regardless of the weight and the trouble of sending it home.

I am actually looking forward to seeing mean roaring rivers and hundreds of water falls. The down side is the winged demons (mosquitoes) will be out very late once again.

Class 5 with pack is a "mere annoyance" but scree bothers you?


Well not exactly. I wouldn't even try class 5 with a full pack on. Last year as I crossed down to Lower Hopkins Lake I found myself down climbing cliff sides and at times having to force myself through trees growing out of the cliffs. Then being fully out stretched on tiny ledges as I used the very tips of tree branches to hold on. Annoying yes, frightening yes. I rarely find myself scared doing anything in the mountains but I did that time.

If you have a desire for even more punishment


You might be onto something with this route. I'll consider the details but I think I am already set on changing my route to this one.

It's anyone's guess what actual conditions on the ground might be


Looking at Google Earth it looks a bit mixed. Cliffs, scree and talus. Impossible to tell how steep it is though.

Go for it, then post some photos!


Oh I will. The last two years I lugged my 8 pounds of camera gear around but this year I am going to go lighter weight and bring a decent point and shoot.

class 4-5 routes with a full pack
won't be problem! Really?


I am not really aware of any sections that I will actually encounter class 4 or 5. I may have a bit or two here and there but as I said I am good at route finding and I do know my limits. If I cannot find a safe place to cross anywhere then turning around and rerouting is not the worst problem.

I have done more cross country then 3 days but I meant I only did 3 days on that 71 day hike.

what about taking terrain, elevation
into consideration


Of course I take that into consideration when I plan. Gaining 1K then losing 6K is not very difficult. I wasn't really aware that the last bit was so much bush wacking but now I am so I will plan for it. If I had not known my only real issue is I would have fallen behind schedule and maybe not had enough food but that is not a problem as I can just catch fish for food.

My lack of experience with bush wacking is not so much a problem with finding my way through safely but knowing just how long it will take to get through it all.

you think, this is part of planning
to.


What I meant was right now I do not know if I can resupply proper in this section. When the services open in Cedar Grove I will give them a call and see if I can track down an exact date that they close. If they close earlier then when I will arrive then I will consider my options.
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Re: Cross Country Route

Postby balzaccom » Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:48 pm

Catching fish is not actually a very good way to re-supply. They have very few calories, and if you are low on provisions, it is actually likely that you will expend more calories catching them and cooking them than they will give you in return.

This kind of thinking makes me fear that you may be tackling more than you can handle on this trip. And I don't know if you've ever hiked a trail that dropped 6,000 feet in a day...but with a pack on, that's a very strenuous day.
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Re: Cross Country Route

Postby rlown » Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:50 pm

Seriously.. Is someone going with you with a rope, or are you at least bringing a SPOT device?

One can't read this with a straight face at this point..
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Re: Cross Country Route

Postby RoguePhotonic » Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:05 pm

Catching fish is not actually a very good way to re-supply. They have very few calories, and if you are low on provisions, it is actually likely that you will expend more calories catching them and cooking them than they will give you in return.


I agree they don't give much calories but how hard it is to catch them depends on your location. Last year I made an error in planning and found myself a day short on food. I simply rationed my food supplies and then ate fish one night for dinner and it all worked out well. After all unless I was in a serious situation it is unlikely to find myself behind schedule for more then a day or two. Sometimes when this happens I will use layover days to make up the time.

And I don't know if you've ever hiked a trail that dropped 6,000 in a day...but with a pack on, that's a very strenuous day.


I did once on the last day of my 2009 trip. I had spent the night on Clouds Rest and then hiked down and climbed Half Dome keeping my pack on until the cables and then went all the way down to Yosemite Valley. it was about 15 miles and 8000 foot altitude loss with a full pack. I also had my Canon 5D2 on me so 8 extra pounds. The effects were better felt the next day.
Last edited by RoguePhotonic on Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cross Country Route

Postby RoguePhotonic » Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:11 pm

Seriously.. Is someone going with you with a rope, or are you at least bringing a SPOT device?


I don't know at this point who will be with me where. There are a few people that are considering coming along for a section or two but I am yet to work that out but most of it I will be alone.

Nope no SPOT, no beacons.

If it makes you feel any better I am ok with dying out there so if it happens it just does. Like John Muir said "what a glorious grave site we would have".
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Re: Cross Country Route

Postby Wandering Daisy » Wed Apr 06, 2011 4:43 pm

You may not care if you die out there, but some poor SAR people are going to have to go out and spend we taxpayers resources to carry your sore butt back to civilization. I think that kind of thinking is really irresponsible. And you really do not want to die anyway. Saying you are willing to die gets you half way to doing stupid enough stuff to actually die. People who have survived epic situations never said die.

Since you have the PCT emblem on your avatar, am I to conclude that you successfully completed the PCT. If so, what year?

How many class 2, class 3, class 4 or class 5 passes have you actually done in the Sierra? Have you really had enough technical climbing experience to know what class 5 is?

This is not a good year for your project. Pretty sure to fail with snow conditions and high water crossings, and your lack of experience. (This is also not a very good year for those poor PCT hikers either). If I were you I would play around the Sierra off-trail to gain a feel for it, including bushwhaking, check out some of the uncertain sections of your routes and then do Roper's High Route in August. There is lots of detailed information on Roper's High Route. All this would go a long way at assuring a higher chance of success to actually complete your project.
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Re: Cross Country Route

Postby rlown » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:07 pm

RP, Just to be clear on the "classes" again, when you say class 5 with a full pack, do you mean this?
The system consists of five classes indicating the technical difficulty of the hardest section:
Class 1 is walking on an even, often planar, surface with a low chance of injury, and a fall is unlikely to be fatal.
Classes 2 and 3 are steeper scrambling with increased exposure and a greater chance of severe injury, but falls are not always fatal.
Class 4 can involve short steep sections where the use of a rope is recommended, and un-roped falls could be fatal.
Class 5 is considered true rock climbing, predominantly on vertical or near vertical rock, and requires skill and a rope to proceed safely. Un-roped falls would result in severe injury or death.
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Re: Cross Country Route

Postby RoguePhotonic » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:31 pm

You may not care if you die out there, but some poor SAR people are going to have to go out and spend we taxpayers resources to carry your sore butt back to civilization


Well if that happened at the very least it's more experience for them which is better in the long run. I don't think anyone thinks they shouldn't drive a car because some poor emergency service personnel may have to clean your blood off the highway. It's not like we plan for things to happen.

And you really do not want to die anyway.


Although me wanting to die or not is irrelevant in general your wrong. But this is no place to get into some sort of soap opera discussion.

Since you have the PCT emblem on your avatar, am I to conclude that you successfully completed the PCT. If so, what year?


Actually I have only hiked a couple hundred miles of the PCT. I use the logo because I am a frequent volunteer with the Pacific Crest Trail Association doing trail maintenance. Logged 451 hours in 2010. :)

I do hope to do the thru hike some day. I wanted to do it this year but money kept me from doing so. And this is a case that I would have not gone because of snow.

Judging classes and passes and and how many is not easy. It seems like most passes that have trails are class 2. If that were the case I have done perhaps 30. As for Class 3 passes I am not sure that I have done any actually. But I have climbed a few mountains with typical slogs up class 3 talus or scree which more or less is the same concept. I did go from Grinnell Lake over the east ridge and down to Lower Hopkins Lake last year which is like crossing a pass and for all I know actually is a named pass that is not on the map. That climb was certainly class 3 at times and at least class 4 on some bits.

When it comes to knowing what class 5 is I really could use more experience. I tend to more often judge classes based on how technical the route is and if there is the lack of good hand holds but classes can be judged allot by exposure also which I do not factor in because I love heights so it doesn't make allot of difference to me if I am 10 feet off the ground or 2000.

There is no way I am not going to attempt this hike this year regardless of what awaits me. But it's certainly possible that many sections I could fail or who knows what may happen in general. If I have to reroute on the go then I will do so. If I do some cross country sections and decide it's not going well I may reroute those bits. I'll take it as it comes and hope for the best. I may not seem like it from my apparent do or die attitude but I am a very focused and level headed person and I know when to quit. But I would rather try and fail then not try at all.

I also believe this will be my last chance to do a hike like this in my life. I plan to do everything I can to become a full time trail worker hopefully with the National Parks Service and if I begin that line of work I don't think I will have the chance for so much free time in my life. Right now I work for my uncle in construction doing acoustical ceilings so I can get off all the time I want and have a job when I get back. It has allowed me to do these hikes the last two years.

RP, Just to be clear on the "classes" again, when you say class 5 with a full pack, do you mean this?


Yes and as I said I wouldn't attempt it with a full pack on. Who would lol. There is a big difference in a full climbers pack and a full hikers pack.
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Re: Cross Country Route

Postby oldranger » Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:17 pm

Rogue

Post deleted by author. I apologize to regular participants in High Sierra Topix. The original post was not appropriate for a forum of this caliber and I don't want it to be a model for future posts.

Mike
Last edited by oldranger on Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Who can't do everything he used to and what he can do takes a hell of a lot longer!
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