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Wilderness Permits and Front-Country Overnights

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Wilderness Permits and Front-Country Overnights

Postby dharter » Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:24 pm

I just learned that an overnight stay in front-country (Toulumne Meadows in this case) invalidates your wilderness permit - at least in Yosemite.

Does anyone know if this rule applies in other jurisdictions and if so, specifically would it apply to an overnight stay at Red's Meadow?

Thanks.
Doug
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Postby hikerduane » Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:11 pm

I'm not really understanding your question/problem. Without a permit, I have stayed at the TM bpers cg the night before a trip on three occasions and someone else had the permit/reservations for a bping trip. You are allowed to camp a mile from the road without having to stay in a campground, just try finding a place to park to hike in that far. :eek: Are you saying that with a permit that you aren't allowed to enter early?
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Per the Yosemite Wilderness Office

Postby dharter » Sat Aug 04, 2007 2:05 am

According to the person I spoke with at the Wilderness Permit Office in Yosemite, after entering the back-country on a wilderness permit (In our case a permit from Happy Isles to Whitney) if you camp anywhere in front-country (TM Lodge in this case) your permit is null and void. You must then obtain a new wilderness permit to again enter the back-country.

What I wanted to find out is if this same rule applied at Red's Meadow, since we would be ouside the Ansel Adams Wilderness overnight.

Doug
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Postby hikerduane » Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:06 am

In years long past now, I used to bp in Desolation, leave the wilderness around Buck Island Reservoir, travel along Loon Lake, reenter once I got around Two Peaks or Lake #5. Maybe since you are in a park things are different. What do people do when they are thru hiking and have a need or emergency and have to hit a town for a day or two then resume their hike?
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Re: Per the Yosemite Wilderness Office

Postby caddis » Sat Aug 04, 2007 8:21 am

dharter wrote:According to the person I spoke with at the Wilderness Permit Office in Yosemite, after entering the back-country on a wilderness permit (In our case a permit from Happy Isles to Whitney) if you camp anywhere in front-country (TM Lodge in this case) your permit is null and void. You must then obtain a new wilderness permit to again enter the back-country.

What I wanted to find out is if this same rule applied at Red's Meadow, since we would be ouside the Ansel Adams Wilderness overnight.

Doug


Who's gonna know?

Simple solution to most foolish government regs....Lie. Nothing outside of the norm for gubment to make a crook out of a law-abiding citizen :D
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Postby PhilB » Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:47 am

Totally agree with Caddis. There are many people in TM campground every night who are in the middle of a trip such as the JMT, PCT or a shorter multi-day hike. If this rule was valid or enforced there would be crowds of hikers at the TM permit office every morning and not enough quota for the 'replacement' permits.

Same reasoning applies to overnight stays at Reds Meadow.
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Postby ndwoods » Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:17 am

Actually in Yosemite it is 4 miles from any road you are allowed to camp...instead of 1. I agree with that policy or the 1 mile would look like garbage....:)
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Double Checked w/Yosemite Wilderness Office

Postby dharter » Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:12 pm

And they affirmed that you cannot overnight in front-country on a wilderness permit. When I asked how far up Lyell Canyon I must travel from TM, the answer was 4 miles - so ndwoods, you seem to have it right.
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Postby hikerduane » Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:36 pm

I was told a couple times I believe that if you are going to sleep out in the woods you had to be at least a mile from the road in Yosemite. Last year by the entrance Ranger at Tioga Pass.
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invalidating permit camping in front country

Postby cherron » Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:38 am

While travelling the JMT several times in recent years, it was never an issue to camp at non-wilderness campsites at Red's, VVR (Edison Lake), or Tuolumne Meadows.

No one every asked to see our wilderness permits at any of these locations.

The rule might have been established to keep squatters from 'living" in the thru hiker camps for free even if they had wilderness permits. When I used to rock climb alot, back in the day, that was sort of an issue for Rangers.

dharter..you must be getting close to your departure date...enjoy! It has been fun reading your posts and the responses. We will probably cross paths along the way, we are northern bound starting on the Sierra High Trail and then heading up to northern Yosemite along the JMT.
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Postby markskor » Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:18 am

Interesting…met and camped with dharter in Yosemite BP camp, and his slow Southern drawl. He goes by the trail name “Chicken Feathersâ€
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Thanks Markskor, but

Postby dharter » Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:10 pm

this dharter is from central PA and instead of a southern drawl says; maus, haus, and get ot vonct!! That's PA dutch for mouse, house and you gotta be kidding! Anyway, we opted to skip the overnight at Tuolumne - didn't want to travel 3000 miles and risk months of planning. Since that's only day 3, we'll pick up our resupply, catch a couple of meals and a shower, and head on down the trail.

Cherron,
Just sent our resupply off to MTR. We fly into Sacramento on the 21st and hit the trail from Happy Isles on the 22nd. Will be at Red's on the 28th, VVR on the 31st, MTR on 9/2 and Whitney on the 12th.
We'll keep a look out for you!

Doug
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