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MichaelRPetrick wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:27 am
I'm just more tentative around grizz, though not sure if that's justified or not. I think of black bears as mostly obnoxious and somewhat wimpy Yogis looking to steal my picnic basket.
There is a lot of differences in the behavior of black bears in different regions. In Alaska they are predatory toward people. In California, they haven't been, somewhat due to the lack of competition (Alaska for example has wolves and big brown bears competing for food) and somewhat due to the vigilance of rangers in the parks that tag, monitor and remove aggressive bears. In areas of California where there are not thousands upon thousands of people every season, black bears are wild enough to just bolt at the sight of people.
I was told by someone recently, very emphatically mind you, that I should never throw things at bears "because they will think you are throwing food at them." There is a LOT of ridiculousness about bears out there. I reminded her to go to the park website and review what the recommendations are for the place you will be hiking and to follow those, not make up stupid advice or listen to random people, because 1) no bear is going to think a stick or a rock is food, they know damn well what food is 2) what you do depends on where you are. The parks are not telling people "no bear spray" because they want people to be hurt. Other parks, like Denali, sell bear spray and recommend bear spray, because you need it. If there were conditions in Yosemite that warranted bear spray it would be sold there too.
If you see bears as only an annoyance, then you either are a whole lot braver than me or you have not had a lot of up close bear encounters. Every bear encounter scares the daylights out of me, and I would love to never see another bear! Sure, it may just be unfounded fear, but just having the bear spray gives me a last resort. Using bear spray is not my first reaction. Thankfully bear encounters are less now than 10 years ago. There is the normal black bear, and then there can be the rogue bear.
At any rate, lots of bears in the area north and east of Hetch Hetchy is and always has been normal. It is something you have to expect when you backpack there. And in early season you will likely also encounter mamma bear and cub which can be very sketchy. You really have to keep looking around for tracks, scat, movement in the bushes and making lots of noise so you do not unintentionally get between the mother and cub.
I think it's completely within bounds to be concerned about bears. It's always in the back of my mind, what if we're the lucky folks who run into that first California bear who gets genuinely deadly? If the bear is coming at you or suddenly in front of you as you round a corner, that's a big problem. You can't run from it, so you have to drive it off. That's what the rangers all say to do, so that's what I do. Several dozen bears later I'm still alive and I hope to continue to be. Doesn't mean the hair on the back of my neck doesn't stand up.
If wildlife approaches the animal, whatever it is, should be driven away. Whether the issue is plague-ridden fleas or immediate threat from the animal itself.
MichaelRPetrick wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:27 am
I'm just more tentative around grizz, though not sure if that's justified or not. I think of black bears as mostly obnoxious and somewhat wimpy Yogis looking to steal my picnic basket.
There is a lot of differences in the behavior of black bears in different regions. In Alaska they are predatory toward people. In California, they haven't been, somewhat due to the lack of competition (Alaska for example has wolves and big brown bears competing for food) and somewhat due to the vigilance of rangers in the parks that tag, monitor and remove aggressive bears. In areas of California where there are not thousands upon thousands of people every season, black bears are wild enough to just bolt at the sight of people.
I was told by someone recently, very emphatically mind you, that I should never throw things at bears "because they will think you are throwing food at them." There is a LOT of ridiculousness about bears out there. I reminded her to go to the park website and review what the recommendations are for the place you will be hiking and to follow those, not make up stupid advice or listen to random people, because 1) no bear is going to think a stick or a rock is food, they know damn well what food is 2) what you do depends on where you are. The parks are not telling people "no bear spray" because they want people to be hurt. Other parks, like Denali, sell bear spray and recommend bear spray, because you need it. If there were conditions in Yosemite that warranted bear spray it would be sold there too.
Oh yeah, was definitely only referring to CA Black Bears now that I think about it.
Oddly enough, in my year in Alaska I had near (but mostly far) encounters with a few dozen grizzlies, but only had a single black bear sighting. I sometimes forget they even have them there because of my own particular experiences!
Back in the 70s, did that 11 miles in one day to Vernon and learned my lesson about taking on too much miles/elevation.
db >>> None of us slept much after that... The 3 of us yelled and screamed for the next 10 mins and we think we scared him off. Never heard or saw him again but that didn’t matter...I basically rolled around in bed until 5am with little to no sleep.
Way back in 1978 I led a group of 5 to Laurel, Vernon, and Wilmer. Before the trip I made a big deal about bear stuff as I had backpacked into those areas previously. Well the others were unconcerned and seemed bored about bear matters. After arriving at Laurel and setting up camp, we did some fishing and I caught a few really nice rainbows. But then noticed no water bottle? So I had to solo backtrack a mile to where I'd apparently left my water bottle while the others remained at the lake. In the mean time (mid day) a bear began terrorizing a few group camps around the lake including ours. When I got back all the rest of them were in blabbering wide-eyed fright. They survived that night as bears indeed visited and at dawn despite considering how terrific fishing was, were all in agreement instead of another day there that we ought immediately flee to Vernon.
There is an ancient deep fear that awakens from our human ape ancestrial past when on wilderness nights growling bears come a prowling.
I was in the area just the week before (HH -> rancheria -> Vernon) and we were the oddballs hoping to bump into "Vern" the bear. He did visit our neighbors in the night on the south side of the lake and was into their fire pit so someone at some point was probably tossing food in the fire. He was also extremely bold with our other neighbors during the day, but alas I never saw him/her.
I also spent a night on the other side of the lake and was shocked to see deer come right through at night when we had a good fire going (maybe within 15-20yd from the fire) so Vern is not the only one visiting camp sites at night.
All kidding aside, I'm real glad he didn't visit us at night. We did leave our bear canister in an obvious place about 30yd from our tent, but it was more likely just luck. It doesn't sound like this is going to end well for Vern if this continues
This thread got me laughing. I know that even black bears have the potential to do serious bodily damage yet after countless encounters with them have come to enjoy sharing the wilderness with them. Have always respected them but when they enter my space I become really aggressive. (Always considered clanging pots and pans to be more like ringing the dinner bell rather than being scary). Before bear containers and hanging food was the one option I knew that even properly hung food could be breached by persistent educated bears. So when a bear entered my camp at night I'd get up, pull on my boots and charge the bear, throwing rocks, screaming like a banshee, and not stop until a couple hundred yards away. My assumption was that bears are lazy and if they get chased that far there must be easier pickins! When employing that strategy even habituated bears left my camp alone after a single encounter. Of course there may be a bear in my future that plays by different rules.
Mike
Who can't do everything he used to and what he can do takes a hell of a lot longer!
Like oldranger I laughed too. People have often dismissed the danger of black bears but usually their only experience is from public campgrounds where indeed bears due to habit tend to be easily frightened and are not aggressive. Or they have met black bears while in groups at popular backcountry areas like Little Yosemite Valley and think bears that is all there is to it. Well how about the solo backpacker camped out miles from any other people in some creepy twig snapping forest during a moonless night? Some large young male black bears with thick hairs sticking out 10 inches around the neck that have not yet had encounters with humans don't understand or play the scaredy bear game. They may regularly scare off or fight with smaller bears in their domain for food and females. In their world you just look like a strange, small, soft, mostly hairless creature without claws and tiny teeth. In Canada where there is much more true wilderness forest and more black bears unfamiliar with people, such bears have killed 9 people during the last decade and 16 the decade before.
Bears as carnivores understand numbers so are far more likely to be intimidated by groups of people versus solo encounters and likewise understand size so smaller adults and children have more to fear. And bears most definitely understand human fear so take oldranger's advice. I've encountered powerful stalking growling huffing black bears along streams in remote trailess areas of northwest Yosemite that unless I had acted like oldranger, they would have continued their approach. A loud aggressive voice while standing one's ground goes a long ways versus some screaming terrified person. And as someone that played too much baseball as a kid, even as an old guy, I can toss rocks with uncanny accuracy.
