Deciding against heroism...

[Tom_H]

seeing these words used so loosely just rubs me the wrong way.

X2

A hero or valiant person takes a risk for the purpose of saving or rescuing another. High stakes risks taken for no reason are just senseless. There is nothing heroic or valiant in taking those kinds of risks.

[Wandering Daisy]

The decision to retreat is not as black and white or easy as some imply. It is a matter of risk tolerance, risk recognition and judgement. Every case is unique. And you may make different decisions based simply on how you feel that day.

"Fall and you die" situations are fairly typical of climbing, particularly un-roped 3rd and 4th class. You have to judge how likely it is that you will fall. Sad example of this is years ago on an SPS climb someone was just standing on the summit block and it gave way, and he fell and died. The particular climb was known to have bad rock, but do you just not climb it? Everyone who tries to climb Mt Everest statistically has about a 10% chance of dying. Should you not climb Everest? Everyone has to answer these questions themselves. Some accept the risk, others do not.

There are "soft" reasons for turning back such as, "I am not having fun anymore". There are calculated risks I often accept, such as when I crawl across logs high above some raging streams; some logs I am fine with. I call these "in the moment" reasons- could go either way depending on how you feel that day. There are "hard" reasons to retreat when continuing has a real risk of death or injury (the raging stream of instant death plus a slippery wet log). And sometimes retreat is simply not an option. In spite of the risk you have to just buck up and continue. Perhaps you did not recognize the risk, or the risk was hidden until you got to the point where continuing actually presents less risk than retreat. You cannot just sit there and cry.

I think more people get in trouble because they fail to recognize the risk until it is too late, rather than pushing on for some goal or being too "bold".

I have done plenty of retreating, plenty of choosing to continue because I saw the risk less than retreating, a few times where I simply felt bold and what the he--. In rock climbing, going up is generally easier (and safer) then down-climbing. I have certainly gotten into a pickle in a few of these. Also with climbing up some steep loose scree gullies or in rock-fall areas. If it takes 5 minutes in the risk zone to continue, vs.30 minutes retreating, I often choose the 5 minute option.

Here is one example of continue vs retreat: I was in the Ionian Basin, decided to do a day-hike down Enchanted Gorge. To continue I had to do a controlled glissade (in ice-axe arrest position) down a 200 foot snowfield totally across the descent route, which turned very icy as I slid down. I did not think I could safely go back up. So I did the entire loop, down to the junction with Goddard Creek, up Goddard, and back to Chasm Lake. I had to bivy just above the junction with Goddard Creek. All turned out fine. I was pretty experienced at unplanned bivies so did not see this as a life or death situation at all.

[rightstar76]

Personal story. It was the Bear Canyon Trail to Mt Baldy. Angeles NF. It was a nice spring day and the weather was warm. I made some mistakes in judgment not drinking enough water and only eating hard candy. Everything was fine until I reached the flat area just south of West Baldy. It suddently got cold and that's when I started feeling sick. I kept going anyway, though at a very slow pace, but then it got so bad I had to sit down. I could see a few people on top of the main summit who had come up on one of the other trails. It looked so close. I thought if I get my second wind I will be up there in 5 minutes. But I never got that second wind. I could barely stand.

I kept thinking I wasn't a man since that's how I was raised. So I stood up and although I was feeling dizzy I said to myself, I'll go even if I have to be carried out in a bag. Then they'll know how tough I was! But then I heard another voice inside say you fool, you're going to risk it all because you're ashamed of not being strong enough today? I went back and forth a few times. Then I made the wise decision and turned back. It took every bit of energy to go down. And I puked my guts out along the way. Though it was all hard candy! I was physically weak the next day.

[Wandering Daisy]

Getting sick enough to be incapacitated is a humbling experience! Never happened while backpacking, thank goodness. In some ways getting sick like that on your candy was a good learning experience for you. Since getting food poisoning in Peru a few years ago, I am more aware of how dangerous it could be while backpacking and am much more careful with the food I take. I am now aware that I may not be able to keep walking at all times, so bring enough clothing on day hikes to stay put if needed.

[SweetSierra]

This was back in the day as well. It was my first multi-day backpack trip, which we decided would be in Dinkey Lakes Wilderness (Sierra National Forest). Two other women and myself started at Courtright Reservoir on an early spring day. As we climbed, we crossed a raging stream. I had to hold my pack over my head (I lost my car keys in the creek--a story for another time). We continued on. When we reached our destination lake, it and the area were covered in snow.

Since we couldn't find the trail, we decided to descend a snow chute to the north (the way we wanted to head), though we couldn't see all the way down. We slipped and slid and hung on to tree branches on the way down. We reached a ledge where it was too steep to continue. We sat there for probably an hour thinking about whether to try and climb back up or cross a nearby snow bridge over a rushing creek that soon disappeared under the snow. A fall through the bridge would mean the possibility of being swept under the snow. But if we crossed the bridge, we would be on a slope that looked doable. I thought there was no way we could ascend the slope we just came down. Everyone agreed to cross the snow bridge, which we did by roping our packs up and dragging them across first, then gingerly stepping across ourselves. I was so relieved, I practically skipped and shouted with happiness. The lesson in this was: think twice before going down something you can't climb back up.

[dave54]

Pondering this question all day, I believe I have pushed on when anyone with an ounce of sense would have retreated, more than vice versa.

One memorable (wish it wasn't) trip was to the Rock Creek Wilderness on Siuslaw NF on coastal Oregon. I had read some trip reports about how arduous it was but decided to try it anyway. There are no trails and the vegetation is so dense cross-country travel is next to impossible. We made it about a half mile up, starting at the lower end off Hwy 101, and had to crawl and climb over more than walk. We were exhausted, scratched up, clothes torn, and covered with litter and sweat when we decided to quit.
Mentioning the trip to some people I met about a year later said the bottom half is impenetrable, but the upper reaches of the Rock Creek headwaters were more accessible.

[bobby49]

Everyone who tries to climb Mt Everest statistically has about a 10% chance of dying.

I seriously doubt that statistic.

[ironmike]

A more accurate number (as of 2016) was in the 6-7% range.

[Wandering Daisy]

I doubt anyone who chooses to climb Everest would think 7% vs 10% enough to change their mind. The point is that there is a risk that is far above what the average backpacker is willing to take.

A relevant statistic may be the number who go to climb Everest who turn back. Since we are talking about turning back. Most climb with guides so the decision is largely made by the guide service. There have been incidences where the Sherpas refused to go and the climbers wanted. I would guess well over half do not make it to the top. But I really do not know what the turn-around rate is.

[ironmike]

May as well just ask for a statistic on common sense. Unobtainable. I’ve been to a subsidiary peak of Everest (Changtse) and we all decided to turn around in light of treacherous snow/ice conditions on the NE Ridge. We were unguided and self-sufficient which goes a long way towards explaining our decision process. Many times I think that guided clients make decisions way above their proficiency level assuming that the guides will save the day or make the impossible possible.