I need some advice/sanity check on a trip im planning in Aug

[AlaskaIsCold]

Hello!

So I am working on a backpacking trip for a few friends and myself, Two of my friends are quiet experienced, one being in the scouts for most of his life and continuing that level of activity into adult, the other is pretty much a mirror of him. I do a lot of day hiking but I have done a few backpacking trips, almost all of them have ended up with me getting curious and going cross country to see "what was over that interesting looking ridge." two of my friends camp every now and then but since they are from the midwest they don't have any real high altitude experience. I was thinking about having them stay in mammoth lakes for a night to acclimate a little. Before the trip.

I wanted to create a trip that wouldnt be too hard but still had some serious challenges. so I came up with this trip, a four day exploration of the convict basin, in the images below I created an approximate route, there are a few parts that im not too sure about, like for Red and White mountain, I am not sure if you can climb up the side that im attempting but I am sure wanting to try. I am not sure if the "pass" I have us going through at the end of day three is really a pass, but it seems like it would be okay, and on day four im not sure if you can approach laurel lakes from that direction, or if I would have to change the routing.

A lot of them are photographers, myself included so I wanted short daily trips that allows for time to set up for landscapes, when you combined that with the high altitude I wanted to make sure that each leg was short, the exception to this is the shot up to red and white mountain, but since most of our gear would be at the camp it makes it less strenuous. and camping near a lake is always wonderful (at least to me) so take a look and tell me what you think. Is this trip fiesable? is it a death march? What do you think?

--Info

What level of backpacking experience do you have?
Level 1- Minimal hiking
Level 2- Some backpacking trips, using trails
Level 3- Numerous backpacking trips, some x-country travel
Level 4- Comfortable with trail and/or x-country travel

I would be at a very low 3, a few backpacking trips, but for most of them I went X-country.
Two of my friends would be at a high 2.
the other two would be at a low 2.

What terrain are you comfortable/uncomfortable with? 
- Class 1 terrain/trail hiking
- Class 2 terrain/pass/x-country
- Class 3 terrain/pass/x-country
- River crossings
- Snow travel/Glacier crossings

Me and two of my friends would be at Class 3 Terrain/Pass/X-Country the other two would be at Class 2 Terrain/Pass/X-Country

How many days/nights is your trip, not including travel to trailhead?

--Four

How many miles did you want to do a day, any layovers?

--Lowest is about 2.5 miles, highest is around 6.5 without main gear.

Have you hiked at elevation before? Any prior issues with Altitude Sickness?

--I have hiked around 10-12K and been fine. Same with two of my friends.
The other two are from Kansas so very low and flat.

Do you have a route logistics preference: loop, out and back, point to point (which may require 2 vehicles or hitchhiking)?

--I am having trouble finding a sierra taxi service that can do a drop off and pick up at laurel lake.

[balzaccom]

Can you do this trip? Probably. So can your more experienced friends. But that doesn't matter. What matters is if your rookie friends will have a good time. My guess is they might not. They'll probably pack too heavy, have some trouble with altitude (at least one if them) and get discouraged. That will slow the rest of the group down, which will frustrate them. Which will discourage the first guy even more--and possibly make him try to hike faster. Which will make him feel worse...

Why not plan for the kind of trip that is sure to work for everyone? A relatively easy hike to a base camp, where the hiking studs can explore and climb at will, and the rookies can fish, hang out, and loaf as needed?

As a leader your priority should be to focus on making sure the slowest,/weakest member of the team is able to participate with comfort and joy. The better hikers can take care of themselves and look for their own adventures

[oldranger]

Need to give the flatlands at least 2 days at 8,000 feet before the trip, and you should make sure that they are in good hiking shape or are committed to getting in shape before the trip.

[balance]

Greetings AlaskaIsCold

Congratulations. You are on the right track giving people the opportunity to visit the beautiful Sierra Nevada. The best book with the kind of information you're looking for is "The High Sierra: Peaks, Passes, Trails" by R.J. Secor. You'll find it's the encyclopedia of the Sierra Nevada high country.

You'll need everyone to agree that you are authorized make the final decision about what gets packed, like leaving behind family sized jars of skin lotion or tons of electronic folderol. Make sure people have adequate, functional clothes and good sleeping gear. If anyone has knee or back issues, have them get a pair of old ski poles. That lessens the strain, especially going downhill.

And when you're up high where you're not supposed to build a fire, don't build a fire. Trying enjoying the stars and the sounds of the night instead of smoke and soot.

Other than that, just have everyone watch "Jeremiah Johnson" and "The Revenant" and you'll all know exactly how to survive in the mountains.

[Scouter9]

First, thank you for using the word, "acclimate", since that is the actual, pre-dumbed word. Well done, that is for an evil, death-march-planning sadist, ha ha! Yeah, I think you certainly should acclimate a day in Mammoth (hey, go to the lakes, gently hikes, no alcohol) but that your route is likely to punish the daylights out of the fellows who backpack less and pretty much never at elevation, due to the passes and elevation gains.

The point above about gear weight is spot-on, too: the old ethos of "baaah, I can carry that" will kick us right in the tenders at altitude.

Now, are the midwesterners willing to start a running program before they come out? I don't like running, but that will build leg and lung faster than any hiking program to ready oneself for backpacking at altitude. That could make quite a difference.

[CAMERONM]

I agree with the comments about badgering your friends to get in shape, helping them on pack weight, and make sure that they do a significant hike weighted down wearing whatever shoes/boots they will wear. I don't know this actual terrain, but I think that your combined mileage/climbing is quite modest and it looks like you will have a fun trip.

[Pulpit]

I would go with Balzacom's advice, which I thought was spot on. You're only going to enjoy it as much as your weakest link.

And DEFINITELY spend a couple nights at 8,000 feet or so as someone else suggested and make sure to hydrate as much as possible. Do a nice day hike with a day pack the first day. It will make a huge difference when you put the big packs on. Coming from the east coast and having not done any high altitude hiking until I started visiting the Sierra annually about 10 years ago acclimatizing and hydrating properly is the most important thing you can do to try to ensure no altitude related problems. Of course on my first trip, we broke up the drive from San Diego by staying a night in Mammoth, getting hammered with the locals and then hitting the trail out of Tuolomne Meadows bright and early the next day. Lesson learned when I was borderline altitude sick for 2 days. Let it never be said that youth is wasted on the young.

[Cross Country]

The first trip with my kids (11 & 6) we hiked to Laurel out of Hetch Hetchy in 2 days. No problem. 3 weeks later we hiked to Mathis Lake from Tuolumne in 2 days. No problem. 2 weeks later we drove from sea level and hiked over Kearsarge pass on the same day. At Kearsarge Lakes they couldn't eat dinner and went to bed from 6PM to 7Am. That was my first experience seeing altitude sickness. About 4 years later Mike (10yo) and I went from LA and hiked to and camped at the Lake just under the pass. I never forgot that lesson.

[Wandering Daisy]

I have heard that the trail from Laurel Lake is VERY steep and has some seriously dangerous creek crossings, if the water is high. Not 100% sure this referred to the trail out of Laurel Lake or Convict Lake. I know that the trail from Convict Lake is very steep. McGee Creek trail washed out badly last year but the horse packers (McGee Outfitters) have basically fixed it. You need to check if your intended trail also washed out and if so, was it fixed.

The McGee Creek trail is not as steep, although longer, and also gets you into some similar scenery. At any rate, you need to consider steepness as well as elevation gain and daily miles. Big McGee Lake has some good fishing and camping on the inlet side, off (below) the trail.

I had trouble seeing your route on the air photos, so not exactly sure of your route. I do better looking at topo maps. (I am currently not at home so cannot look up the route on a map).

[Wandering Daisy]

Also, I thought that Lake Constance was prettier than Dorothy Lake. I did a trip report in this area a few years back- you may be able to find it and read it. I came in from Big McGee Lake via Corridor Pass (not recommended for beginners). I thought the route up Red and White looked pretty steep and loose. But I did not do it. Lake Dorothy has pretty steep slopes down to the lake; I did not camp there because of that. I did camp at Constance, and witnessed an amazing storm that provided some great photographs.