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Who owns this lake? Yosemite or Emigrant?

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Who owns this lake? Yosemite or Emigrant?

Postby bigd » Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:37 am

There is a tiny lake on the northern boundary of Yosemite/southern boundary of Emigrant Wilderness, that, depending on which map you look at, is owned/managed by different entities.

The CalTopo version shows Emigrant: http://www.mappingsupport.com/p/gmap4.p ... &z=16&t=t4
The MyTopo version shows Yosemite: http://www.mappingsupport.com/p/gmap4.p ... &z=16&t=t2

The official Stanislas National Forest map shows Yosemite: http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOC ... 403398.pdf
The official Yosemite National Park map shows Emigrant: http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/u ... SEmap1.pdf

The 1990 Tiltill Mtn 7.5 minute quad shows Emigrant: http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/u ... illmtn.pdf
The 1956 Tower Peak 15 minute quad shows Yosemite: http://ims.er.usgs.gov/gda_services/dow ... id=5504817

Who's my daddy?

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Re: Who owns this lake? Yosemite or Emigrant?

Postby maverick » Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:54 am

On my NG map it is within Yosemite, same for USA Topo.
I don't give out specific route information, my belief is that it takes away from the whole adventure spirit of a trip, if you need every inch planned out, you'll have to get that from someone else.

Have a safer backcountry experience by using the HST ReConn Form 2.0, named after Larry Conn, a HST member: http://reconn.org
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Re: Who owns this lake? Yosemite or Emigrant?

Postby maverick » Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:01 pm

Well, your lake is a big headache, USGS could not clarify, but they are saying it looks like it is on the Yosemite side on their most current maps, they referred me to BLM as being the authority in NP/NF boundary issues. The BLM surface management map does not even have this lake on it :( , they even called it a fantom lake until they checked the Tiltill Mountain Quad 7.5 and saw the lake for themselves, but they to could not determine which agency the lakes belongs to either because of it being on the border-line. :\
They advised me to call the district ranger for Stanislaus NF at Groveland and Yosemite NP to get clarification on who the lake belongs to. #-o
Waiting on the district ranger to call back, and e-mailed a contact in Yosemite to put me in touch with someone knowledgeable in these issues.
Standby for an update on this mystery lake. :-({|=
I don't give out specific route information, my belief is that it takes away from the whole adventure spirit of a trip, if you need every inch planned out, you'll have to get that from someone else.

Have a safer backcountry experience by using the HST ReConn Form 2.0, named after Larry Conn, a HST member: http://reconn.org
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Re: Who owns this lake? Yosemite or Emigrant?

Postby cslaght » Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:38 am

I must say, this is quite fascinating, especially in a more general analysis of Western land management. Thanks for being detective Mav!
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Re: Who owns this lake? Yosemite or Emigrant?

Postby Vaca Russ » Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:16 am

My bet is Yose!

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Re: Who owns this lake? Yosemite or Emigrant?

Postby oldranger » Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:07 am

Since the boundary in this area is the ridge between kendrick creek and Cherry creek the logical conclusions is that the lake should not be in Yosemite. So I would go with the YNP map. But then what does logic have to do with it? My guess is that there was some sloppy work done on the USGS 1956 quad when the boundary info was overlaid--pretty sure back then it was done manually. The person drawing the line misread to topo and didn't notice the jog in the watershed division. The different subsequent map boundaries probably reflect what version of the usgs maps was used as the basis for them. The USGS does not always get things correct. The old 15 minute series map and several newer maps based on it show 2 outlets for Lost Lake in the Sugarloaf drainage in SEKI. If you've been there you know there is only one!

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Re: Who owns this lake? Yosemite or Emigrant?

Postby markskor » Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:24 am

Have to check, but...
Didn't Delaware North copyright/register that name too? :lol:
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Re: Who owns this lake? Yosemite or Emigrant?

Postby dave54 » Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:05 pm

My guess would be the jurisdictional matters would be ignored until a real reason arose to settle one way or another -- a wildfire, LE incident, or increased visitor use forced the agencies to deal with it. Then the simplest solution would be an interagency memorandum as to who takes it.

Somewhat reminds me of a small parcel of land in Lassen NF I found that as far as anyone could determine belonged to no one. A surveying error from the 1800s combined with ambiguous metes and bounds descriptions of boundaries left a long skinny triangle about 3 feet at the base and 35 feet on a side with no ownership. When I kicked it upstairs for a resolution no one could resolve it and no one cared.
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Re: Who owns this lake? Yosemite or Emigrant?

Postby maverick » Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:33 pm

When I kicked it upstairs for a resolution no one could resolve it and no one cared.


Well that is encouraging, similar to when I got in touch with the NF about the Reconn Form, hit a brick wall. ](*,) :\


Groveland District Wilderness manager could not give me a definite answer, but says it looks like it belongs to Yosemite according to their map, they said that this section belongs to the Summit District, so I am trying to catch up to the Wilderness Manager in that office.
Got in touch with the Yosemite's Resource Manager, they ask me to send an e-mail with the location of the lake, waiting to hear back from them.
I don't give out specific route information, my belief is that it takes away from the whole adventure spirit of a trip, if you need every inch planned out, you'll have to get that from someone else.

Have a safer backcountry experience by using the HST ReConn Form 2.0, named after Larry Conn, a HST member: http://reconn.org
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Re: Who owns this lake? Yosemite or Emigrant?

Postby TehipiteTom » Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:47 pm

I think that lake deserves a name. Yosegrant Lake? Ambiguous Boundary Lake?
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