Where to camp to avoid bears

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Wandering Daisy
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Re: Where to camp to avoid bears

Post by Wandering Daisy »

In the old days, we would carry our food in a duffle bag and use it for a pillow! Times have changed. I too sometimes have more food than will fit in one bear can. And no, I will not use two bear cans! I put the extra in a stuff sack and hang it. Within a day or two it fits in the can.

Rogue- you have spent lots of time in the Sierra- but mostly in the last 5 years. I have noticed a real reduction of bears, mostly attributed to the use of bear cans so bears now do not get rewarded for raiding camps. It has gone from 15+ bears seen a season to now maybe 1-2 bear.

Hey- maybe you are more scary than the bears. They take one smell, and say- no way! That guy is gross!

Seriously I am surprised you do not run into more bear while hiking. I see them all the time. Not that I see a full on huge bear in front of me - but I see them through the brush and trees in the distance. They pretty quickly run off. I think if you made a point of looking for bear you would see some.

It would not hurt my feelings if I NEVER saw another bear in my life! No matter when I have seen them, it has been a bit terrifying. I am way over the "cool" factor in seeing bears. I would rather hike without the worry and anxiety.
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Re: Where to camp to avoid bears

Post by LMBSGV »

Rogue, I’d like to suggest an alternative to having your food in the tent when you have too much to fit in the canister. This is the method I used when camping near timberline and above in the late 1980s until 2000 when I got my first canister. I never had my food disturbed.

Put the food in a stuff sack and find a big erratic somewhere near your campsite. Make sure the erratic is at least 8-10 feet high with sides sheer enough a bear can’t possibly climb it. Take the food sack and climb the erratic and place the sack at the top above the erratic's sheerest point six inches or more from the edge. Put a good size rock on top of the end of the stuff sack. Climb back down and enjoy a good night’s sleep.

Back then, when I was out with my family for several days, I sometimes had two stuff sacks of food. My son thought it was fun to help me climb the erratic and place the rock(s) on their end(s). I never had to walk more than a hundred yards to find a good erratic. As I mentioned, we never had our food disturbed. And it’s a lot safer for you and your tent.
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Re: Where to camp to avoid bears

Post by SSSdave »

As related in my opening thread, let's not broaden the discussion into food storage methods thus continue to focus on where to camp to avoid bears. If any want to discuss that please start your own thread. I have a lot to say but am heading up to ski for a day and will make more inputs later.

Like Wandering Daisy I come across a lot of black bears and that is because I tend to ramble off trails in places bears are at. Those who cross country primarily at or above timberline are not likely to meet bears except where people travel and camp about, along streams in canyons, or routes across saddles on ridges. In other words if one is above timberline and in areas people don't tend to route or camp at, and not at natural areas deer and bear cross ridges at, one is not likely to ever see bears. Where bears want to be during summer is in tall dense conifer forests. Those forests tend to be below timberline, however there are patches of such forests even at timberline elevations though they are the kind of places people don't visit. The reason black bears like those forests is because when afraid their natural instinct is to climb trees. Even better is where large talus below cliffs meet such dense forests. When bears are rambling about at night or early morning they prefer to follow up stream drainages. That is because sumping night breezes flow down such drainages bringing to them all odors above flowing down. If however one climbs up on a canyon slope well above air flows in canyon bottoms, air tends to rise up towards the ridge lines. That is also where one tends to find deer bedding. Deer avoid nighting down in canyon bottoms because the air is chillier and bears might smell their fawns. More later.
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Re: Where to camp to avoid bears

Post by markskor »

Where to camp to avoid bears? Why? A bit presumpuous too that Dave throws in his caveat... "In this thread, PLEASE, let us not get into how we are storing or protecting food and focus only on camp spots that avoid bears." Thinking this all connected, but... Thoughts:

Much like many HST members here, have been known to backpack/get out some myself...somewhere in the thousands of nights...hundreds of bear sightings. Since the advent of the bear can, I just don't worry about the bear anymore...just not a problem. BTW, Through their keen sense of smell, the bear knows exactly what food you have, where it is, how much you have, and has also learned the futility of opening up a closed bear can.

Interesting too why some even feel the need worry about bears. Unlike as stated above, I keep my Weekender at the side of my tent (helps as a seat to put on boots). We regularly cook trout at camp...(foil packages in frypan over canister stoves), and leave the utensels close too. Fishing gear? It's right there. Super clean camp? Food smells? Sure we try but neither one has ever been an issue. Bear Scat? So? Sleeping with food? As hanging is no longer allowed Yosemite (gets you a ticket if spotted?)...few other reasonable options are available those first few days out. Campfires? Where legal we often use them, if just for cooking up trout. Best advice - stay alert, and not be averse to chucking granite at ursine intruders.

The bear is known to frequent all areas Sierra depending on season, conditions, water - If you really want to totally avoid seeing one, stay out of where they live - Sierra. Myself, any bear sighting today is always a welcome experience.
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Re: Where to camp to avoid bears

Post by paul »

Haven't had a bear encounter - other than hearing one go past in the night - since I stated carrying a canister. And have rarely seen one during the day. One thing I've wondered about is why in the Emigrant wilderness, which gets a fair amount of use and certainly has plenty of bears, there don't seem to be as many bear issues, and canisters are not required. When I am there I always see bear tracks right on the trail somewhere, so they are obviously around, but have never had an issue.
I don't know if it's the hunting - that area is very popular with hunters - or perhaps the horses, as there are a couple pack stations that serve the area and plenty of horses and mules in there. Horse packers often have dogs along as well, and I know bears tend not to like dogs, so that may play a part, but I don't know.
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Re: Where to camp to avoid bears

Post by Wandering Daisy »

Emigrant is used a lot by horse people. It was historically more used thus less of a "grandfathered" wilderness. In fact there are a lot of structures in Emigrant. The FS management policy is a lot more "hands-off" than other areas of the Sierra. I think this reflects local wishes. So I think the no canister rules are more politics than science. Nevertheless, I usually take a bear can when in Emigrant. The part of Emigrant that borders Yosemite does have a lot of bear, but is not used as much as the northern part that is more accessible from Sonora highway. I probably would not take a can for a 1-2 night trip, but for a week, the extra weight of a can is not much. I suspect if bears became a big issue they would require bear cans. I think most of the users in this area simply do not want the regulation , so even if their food gets stolen, they do not report it.
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Re: Where to camp to avoid bears

Post by SweetSierra »

Maverick's list is pretty complete. I don't worry about black bears. I've run into bears on many trips in Yosemite, the Golden Trout, the Tablelands, but generally not off trail above timberline. And the ones I've seen, have run away. Bears don't snort or make any noise at all. For being so large, they are light on their feet. :) You won't even know they're there unless you're hanging your food and they're trying to get at it.
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Re: Where to camp to avoid bears

Post by norak »

We backpacked in Emigrant every year (always entering from the west) for about seven or eight years in the early to late 2000's and for most of that time used the counter-balance method of food storage. Never saw or heard a bear in that entire time, though we occasionally saw scat. I once asked a ranger at the Summit Ranger Station at Pinecrest about this, and he said the bears stay wild in the Emigrant because bear hunting is allowed there. I suppose that any bears that get habituated to humans would be more likely to be taken in a hunt, so a kind of natural selection occurs. Bears that stay away from humans have a better chance of surviving, and the problem bears get eliminated. We started using bear canisters there once we acquired them for other regions where they're required, simply because it's so much easier than hanging. We used to spend between 30 minutes to an hour every evening finding a tree that would do the job, then throwing the rock tied to the rope over and over until it cleared the branch without getting stuck in the branches, counter balancing, etc etc. Don't miss that at all!
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Re: Where to camp to avoid bears

Post by SSSdave »

Back home now from skiing yesterday. Decades ago there were far less black bear in many of the National Forest areas people now backpack in because they were shot. Of course hunting was generally in our society much more acceptable in that day including bear hunting. Packers ride alone with horses back up to meet clients to bring them back down the mountain. One told me he shot bears in areas they were bothering clients and I suspect he was not alone in that attitude. With a change in societal attitudes, it was in the 90s that I began to see a rise of bears in many areas they never used to make an appearance.

If it matters to you, where to camp in order to avoid black bears?
  • When not prowling for people food, bears are very smart at finding areas nearby where people almost never go. They very much want to avoid people areas when not prowling.

    In summer black bears very much like areas with tall conifers, especially dense forest with big yellow pines, incense cedar, jeffrey pine, sugar pine, white fir and red fir. Black bears are spooky creatures, evolved to quickly escape from grizzly encounters or larger black bears, and do so by climbing trees they can easily reach most of the way around with their long hairy arms and claws.

    Don't camp at places people camp at, along trails, lakes people camp and fish at, popular cross country routes say to some lake or peakbagging peak.

    Don't camp along or near larger canyon streams. Bears very much seem to like following up stream courses. As noted odors at night sump down such as night cold air flows so a bear can follow up to the source of smells.

    Camp away from places they naturally forage at like meadows where rodents abound and in season slopes with berries that are often on sunnier aspects.

    Don't camp along natural routes and ridge saddles deer and bear take to travel across zones. Like us they take efficient routes instead of climbing up to heights needlessly.

    Camp at or above timberline in areas people have no reason to pass through. If bears go into those areas because they are exploring, it is not likely to be during night hours but rather during the day. At night they know where they are going.

    Good choices in such areas are minor ridges, hills, and domes with open glaciated bedrock. Air in such places tends to be gradually pushed up by expanding cold night flows below. Such areas usually have small gruss flats between trees and rocks easy to make a minimalist camp on.
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=37.87110,-119.41477&z=14&t=T

The above topo link shows Tuolumne Meadows and areas west. Wonder where some of those bears that plague the Tuolumne Meadows campground or Cathedral Lakes at night spend their day hours? One of the places is between Low Profile Dome and Whizz Domes and areas below to Cathedral Creek. A lot of climbers are about Daff, Fairview, Melicott, and Polly Dome and some backpackers may camp where the Murphy Creek Trail meets Polly Dome Lakes. But almost no people have reasons to wander about where I noted.

Whizz Domes are the unnamed on topo two adjacent domes northeast of Polly Dome Lakes. They are not visible from SR120 because the conifer forest is very dense and tall there with considerable forest floor obstacles all about like logs. As an area of heavy snowfall, it tends to be very moist and cool thus also has lots of mosquitoes in season. Lots of climbers follow up Cathedral Creek south of the SR88 crossing but none descend into the Labrador tea jungles to the north along the creek. The domes behind Daff Dome that is point 9153 are all fascinating places to visit. Dome 8744 has nice views and I camped there once during a May storm that dropped 11 inches of snow. Also not a place bears would bother with. Another very nice place for a remote backpacking destination just a legal mile from roads with nice views up towards Cathedral Peak is the 8403 dome area because the domes have nice areas of bedrock. Despite myriad day hikers and backpackers nearby up in the Cathedral Lakes area each summer, ironically these areas which are real wilderness see almost no one. To see bears in these areas requires quiet slow travel treading lightly, stopping to look around, then moving ahead, lest bears hear and immediately hide.
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Re: Where to camp to avoid bears

Post by JWreno »

I am glad to be using canisters. We lost a lot of sleep in the early 90's defending our hung food from dive bombing bear cubs. Since 1990 we have only lost food to a bear once. We stopped for a break and my son took off his fanny pack with goodies. We were within a few feet of the fanny pack when a bear makes a quick dash out from behind a house size boulder and snags the fanny pack and runs off. I tried to follow it to retrieve the pack but he was a lot faster than me. The only time my wife was nervous about a bear was when we were camping in Little Yosemite Valley and she wakes up to hot garbage bear breath from a bear sniffing around the campsite. She was too nervous to react other than pulling the sleeping bag hood over her face.

25 years of Sierra backpacking has made me pretty comfortable about being around and aware of black bears. I have be a bit reluctant to take a backpacking trip in Grizzly country.
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