Help planning for late 2016 trip | High Sierra Topix  

Help planning for late 2016 trip

If you've been searching for the best source of information and stimulating discussion related to Spring/Summer/Fall backpacking, hiking and camping in the Sierra Nevada...look no further!
User avatar

Help planning for late 2016 trip

Postby kwyjibo » Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:52 pm

My boyfriend and I are planning a late season two week trip to evolution valley coming from South lake and ending in north lake. I have been on two backpacking trips and I have hiked several times, so I guess my experience level is 2. My boyfriend is a 4. He extremely experienced and has hiked just about everywhere in the Emigrant Wilderness in all conditions. We will also have our two dogs with us.

My question when would you guys recommend we do this trip. We would love to see the fall colors for some great photography and he also wants to go trout fishing. The biggest fear though is getting stuck in a big snow storm. We don't mind thunderstorms and we plan to prepare for snow, but would like to avoid it.

Thanks in advance for any advice.



User avatar
kwyjibo
Topix Novice
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:41 am
Experience: N/A

User avatar

Re: Help planning for late 2016 trip

Postby maverick » Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:26 pm

Hi kwyjibo,

Welcome to HST!

We will also have our two dogs with us.


Their are no dogs allowed into National Parks.
HST= Wilderness Adventurer who knows no bounds, except for their own imagination.

Have a safer backcountry experience by using the HST ReConn Form 2.0, named after Larry Conn, a HST member: http://reconn.org
User avatar
maverick
Forums Moderator
Forums Moderator
 
Posts: 8050
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:54 pm
Experience: Level 4 Explorer

User avatar

Re: Help planning for late 2016 trip

Postby kwyjibo » Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:22 pm

Thanks for the heads up. That is something I actually never considered. I assumed you could since I take them with us everywhere in the sierras. I never considered we would be hiking far enough into the Sierras to get to the other side. On a side note.... It is a dumb rule. I feel much safer at night with them in the tent with me. I understand the need to ban dogs in popular areas like Yosemite, but why in remote areas especially when you can bring in pack animals.
User avatar
kwyjibo
Topix Novice
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:41 am
Experience: N/A

User avatar

Re: Help planning for late 2016 trip

Postby Sierra Miguel » Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:44 pm

kwyjibo wrote:On a side note.... It is a dumb rule.

Do you know their reason for it?

I feel much safer at night with them in the tent with me.

Safer from what?
User avatar
Sierra Miguel
Topix Acquainted
 
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:15 pm
Location: Berkeley, CA, US
Experience: Level 3 Backpacker

User avatar

Re: Help planning for late 2016 trip

Postby seanr » Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:50 pm

Just look at a good map of the Sierra. There is tons of great stuff between SEKI and YNP, including many opportunities to see fall colors in October. If fall colors are truly a priority, car camping or short backpacks close to trailheads (and therefore generally east of the national parks) is better. Plus then it is easy to bail from any big storms. The show is a little different every year with lots of choices of locations legal for dogs. http://www.californiafallcolor.com
User avatar
seanr
Topix Regular
 
Posts: 257
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:46 am
Experience: N/A

User avatar

Re: Help planning for late 2016 trip

Postby kwyjibo » Sat Oct 17, 2015 4:54 am

Yes I do know the reason. It just makes me mad that not all domestic animals are banned. Pack animals are just as disruptive to the wilderness, and as a hiker it is very unpleasant having to walk through their poop.

I feel a sense of security because they can hear better than me, and have woken me up to the presence of other critters in the area.

We are doing this trail. The restriction on dogs just means they will have to be kenneled for two weeks instead of having fun.
User avatar
kwyjibo
Topix Novice
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:41 am
Experience: N/A

User avatar

Re: Help planning for late 2016 trip

Postby Sierra Miguel » Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:58 am

kwyjibo wrote:Yes I do know the reason.

Do tell. I don't know it.

What I do know is that the rangers and park superintendent (who makes the rules) live out there, day after day, year after year. So I don't think you should be second-guessing them so casually.

Pack animals are just as disruptive to the wilderness, and as a hiker it is very unpleasant having to walk through their poop.

I dislike that too, and think they should have to bury it like we do.

But pack animals are prey animals, unlike dogs, so aren't about to confront the wildlife.

I feel a sense of security because they can hear better than me, and have woken me up to the presence of other critters in the area.

As your BF can tell you, the biggest thing to be afraid of while sleeping in your tent is that a dead tree branch might fall on you. The wildlife only cares about your food. You're more likely to create a danger by having a dog around to confront any bear that shows up.

they will have to be kenneled for two weeks instead of having fun.

A friend told me of a kennel—more like a dog spa—in the Dublin area, where the dog was having second thoughts about going home with its owner, it was having so much fun.

You know it only takes an average body about five days to do that South-North Lake loop? You must have some side excursions planned.

Be sure to get your permits early. It's a popular route.
User avatar
Sierra Miguel
Topix Acquainted
 
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:15 pm
Location: Berkeley, CA, US
Experience: Level 3 Backpacker

User avatar

Re: Help planning for late 2016 trip

Postby rlown » Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:50 am

kwyjibo wrote:Thanks for the heads up. That is something I actually never considered. I assumed you could since I take them with us everywhere in the sierras. I never considered we would be hiking far enough into the Sierras to get to the other side. On a side note.... It is a dumb rule. I feel much safer at night with them in the tent with me. I understand the need to ban dogs in popular areas like Yosemite, but why in remote areas especially when you can bring in pack animals.


When planning a trip, you really need to read and understand the rules for the areas you are entering. They are current rules; not really to be questioned or debated unless you do that through their public comment channels or requests to the Superintendent of the area/region. You go to their websites, make calls, ask for information, and share your intended route.

We call it research.

There are lots of places that allow dogs. There are other threads here that have TR's that show the dogs with the hikers.

Late 2016.. hmm. who knows? It's going to be a weather call, and maybe a day before you go. I'd aim at early Sept as a target but adjust based on what our Winter looks like this year. Personally, Oct is too late. It's colder and shorter days. Storm window is open as it is right now.

This question is better asked in July 2016. But you can still plan your trip and make the calls and do the research.

Pack animals have been used here longer than you've been alive, thrice. They are not going away.

And please say Sierra instead of "Sierras" from now on.
User avatar
rlown
Topix Junkie
 
Posts: 5358
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:00 pm
Location: Petaluma and Wilton, CA
Experience: Level 4 Explorer

User avatar

Re: Help planning for late 2016 trip

Postby Wandering Daisy » Sat Oct 17, 2015 3:40 pm

The tone of these replies has been a bit harsh. We really are not a bunch of grumps. Your post simply had a few "red flags" that indicated that you had not done much "homework" before asking questions.

First, two weeks is a LONG backpack. Carrying 14 days of food and fuel means anywhere from 20-30 pounds in your pack! Two weeks also means a LONG ways out from a reliable weather report. Late season indicates additional pack weight to accommodate cooler weather. A serious storm is more probable. Few of us would do a 2-week trip late season. (You did not define "late season". September would be vastly different than October.)

As for dogs, have you done a 2-week trip with two dogs before? That is a LOT of dog food! As for the rules regarding no dogs, you simply have to play by the rules. There are large wilderness areas that do allow dogs other than the Sierra. For the future you may want to check out the Wind Rivers in Wyoming, for example.

Consider two 5-6 day trips vs one 2-week trip. For example, do your south lake to north lake trip first (earlier) and then do an east-side trip to a basin on the east side so you do not have to cross the crest. If weather gets bad you can then easily bail out. Or if weather is bad, just do day hikes. Rock Creek, Sabrina basin, or Pine Creek (First Lake, to Sixth Lake) or the Minarets are examples.

Lastly, DO read the tons of great trip reports here. Pay attention to the time of year so you can get a feel for typical conditions.

Good thing is that you have a year to figure this out! Good Luck.
User avatar
Wandering Daisy
Topix Junkie
 
Posts: 2610
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:19 pm
Location: Fair Oaks CA (Sacramento area)
Experience: N/A

User avatar

Re: Help planning for late 2016 trip

Postby kwyjibo » Sat Oct 17, 2015 6:34 pm

Sorry if I have sounded harsh. I shouldn't have posted it when I did. I was in the middle of a big fight with someone.

As far as Sierra vs Sierras I also apologize. I did not realize a typo would offed so many.

I take my dogs with me everywhere and they are well conditioned for backpacking. They even carry their own packs with the appropriate weight for their size. I did not realize that they wouldn't be allowed on this trail since when looking up the trail I didn't see much on it. I never said I was going to take them after finding out they are not allowed. Also, I firmly do believe that it is a dumb rule since the restrictions is based on arbitrary boundary lines. I completely agree they shouldn't be allowed in popular areas like Yosemite, but to allow them on one side of a line and not the other is silly. I also mentioned pack animals because they are very destructive to the environment and unless they are fed a special diet, the seeds of non native plants can pasd through their digestive system and then sprout.

Here is a website that lists the reasons they are not allowed. http://www.nps.gov/pub_aff/e-mail/pets.htm

Anyways back to the original question. We want to take lots of side excursions, and really explore the area. I have been doing lots of research and that is why I joined this forum. My boyfriend has done a number of two week trips and we both understand what all goes into it. We have been stocking up on light weight gear. We did a week long trip out of crab tree this past summer as an introduction for me into the world of backpacking. We also did a 30 mile in 3 days trip because I'm crazy and underestimated how much work it would be.

I want to get a permit as soon as we can that is why I'm trying to get some expert advice. My boyfriend has always gone in the spring and summer time, and wants to do something different this time. We know that weather is dependent on what is going on at the time, like how this year we have a big El Niño event. However, we were hoping to get a good sense of how late season weather is in the high Sierra. That way we can buy any necessary gear that we may not currently have, and make the proper preparations. We are trying to figure out how different September and October is, so we can decide how late into the season we want to go.

I was trying to answer the questions in the pinned post about how to ask for tips on planning a trip. I never meant to start all these problems.
User avatar
kwyjibo
Topix Novice
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:41 am
Experience: N/A

User avatar

Re: Help planning for late 2016 trip

Postby Sierra Miguel » Sat Oct 17, 2015 6:44 pm

Wandering Daisy wrote:Two weeks also means a LONG ways out from a reliable weather report.

The backcountry ranger stations get daily reports by radio, and many of the hikers will have days-old reports from the TH or from Muir Ranch. Not sure what date the (summer) rangers close up shop.

A serious storm is more probable. Few of us would do a 2-week trip late season.

A storm of a few days seems to roll through in mid-October, just like this year. If you're only two days from the TH and getting recent reports, it's not hard to get out safely. There's also Lamarck Col for a quick and easy exit, since you won't have dogs.

do your south lake to north lake trip first (earlier) and then do an east-side trip to a basin on the east side so you do not have to cross the crest.

If you put your dogs up in Bishop or Mammoth, you could bring them on the second trip.
User avatar
Sierra Miguel
Topix Acquainted
 
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:15 pm
Location: Berkeley, CA, US
Experience: Level 3 Backpacker

User avatar

Re: Help planning for late 2016 trip

Postby Sierra Miguel » Sat Oct 17, 2015 7:22 pm

kwyjibo wrote:Sorry if I have sounded harsh.

I don't think Wandering Daisy was referring to you, rather us beating up on the newbie.

As far as Sierra vs Sierras I also apologize.

:lol: Don't worry about that, either, unless you're a linguist. Someone else can probably point you to some long debate thread about it.

I firmly do believe that it is a dumb rule since the restrictions is based on arbitrary boundary lines. I completely agree they shouldn't be allowed in popular areas like Yosemite, but to allow them on one side of a line and not the other is silly.

The rules are made by jurisdiction, i.e., arbitrary boundary lines. But the boundaries aren't so arbitrary, as you'll see. I'd say there's a marked increase in natural beauty when you cross into the park. And that makes it popular. The North-South Lake loop is very popular. So is the JMT and the PCT. All pass through Evolution Valley.

I also mentioned pack animals because they are very destructive to the environment and unless they are fed a special diet

I believe a weed-free feed is required. (I don't use stock.)

We want to take lots of side excursions, and really explore the area.

Darwin Canyon/Bench, lower Dusy Basin. McGee Lakes, Black Giant, Desolation Lake, probably nice. Davis Lake not so much. Langille Peak from the south has some class 3, I hear. Here's one trip that I did this year.

I want to get a permit as soon as we can

Six months prior.

I never meant to start all these problems.

I don't think you've started any problems.
User avatar
Sierra Miguel
Topix Acquainted
 
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:15 pm
Location: Berkeley, CA, US
Experience: Level 3 Backpacker

Next

Return to Backpacking / Hiking / Camping



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests