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2015 Group Trip ?

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Re: 2015 Group Trip ?

Postby SSSdave » Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:04 pm

[quote="Cross Country"]Cathedral Lakes or Ten Lakes Basin from Tioga road are not to hard and afford you the option of a little more. ...quote]

Yeah thought about those and some other SR120 destinations in Yosemite. Superb in all but one category. Fishing enthusiasts would have little to do. And wilderness permits for those very popular destinations would face quota issues. Other suggestions are relatively strenuous. And the Tuolumne Meadows Campground would certainly be of interest as a car camping destination meet up were it not for the heavy demand for sites mid summer.



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Re: 2015 Group Trip ?

Postby AlmostThere » Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:06 am

I seem to recall throwing back about two dozen brook trout per day, and packing the larger ones in snow in the bear can for the trip home, the first time I stayed at the lower Ten Lakes.
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Re: 2015 Group Trip ?

Postby SSSdave » Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:17 am

AlmostThere wrote:I seem to recall throwing back about two dozen brook trout per day, and packing the larger ones in snow in the bear can for the trip home, the first time I stayed at the lower Ten Lakes.


Thanks AT. If that was a trip recently say in the last decade, great. Well qualified in all other ways. Certainly would be one of the shorter drives from Northern California areas. I visited the basin decades ago and in that era many lakes in Yosemite had fine fishing even just a few miles from trailheads. But the end of stocking and heavy pressure of day hiking in this era has changed that in many NP waters.

Obviously the most difficult enthusiast group to satisfy in this Internet era on a group trip of just a few days one day in and out from trailheads, is going to be our considerable fishing members. There are fair numbers of short destinations that would satisfy peakbaggers, terrain explorers, and photographers like Cathedral Lake however fish in such places have been severely reduced simply because they are easy to hike to. Backcountry bodies of water with larger fish close to trailheads today are very few and if so are otherwise probably difficult to catch. Not a few such places during the last couple decades have gone from good or ok to rather fished out simply due to web information and forums. Any suggestion is not going to satisfy the lunker enthusiast though there are waters where fishermen can at least expect to catch some smaller fish.
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Re: 2015 Group Trip ?

Postby TehipiteTom » Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:32 am

oldranger wrote:While I appreciate the desire for a bunch of great people wanting to get together in the backcountry I have always had a problem with large groups. I think choosing a remote location works great as not many people regardless of what they intend will actually make it. As an individual, encountering a large group in Bear Basin would just seem wrong to me and I would hate to do so at the end of a long day with little ability to move on. That is why I keep my groups small and in locations where others would expect to find company. I remember once when Tehipte Tom and I spent the night at a small lake with over 20 boy scouts camped near us (we had already spent one night when the scouts showed up) even if they hadn't been young and boisterous the shear number was disturbing.

I would think a front country location would be much more appropriate for a large HST gathering. Just my pov.

Mike

Excellent points, and I think it brings up the question of what we want this to be: a reunion of as many HST people as possible (which should be frontcountry), or a meet-up of just a few?

IMO, if it isn't the former I'm not sure I see the point. Smaller groups can always arrange to meet up in the backcountry (and do--see the Old Farts trip reports).
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Re: 2015 Group Trip ?

Postby TehipiteTom » Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:35 am

SSSdave wrote:
LMBSGV wrote:
I would think a front country location would be much more appropriate for a large HST gathering. Just my pov

Also my pov.


Sure car camping could work too and just 3 days would fit. The issue is sure to be finding a car camping location that would be interesting enough for people to actually bother to make all the effort for?

Cold Springs (Mineral King) would be ideal, if someone could snag sites (no reservations). Any of the Kings Canyon (proper) campgrounds would also work. Or maybe Jackass or Vermillion.
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Re: 2015 Group Trip ?

Postby Cross Country » Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:03 pm

If you want to have a place that is only one day hike and still good fishing I suggest Laurel Lake out of Hetch Hetchy. Also the camping possibilities for a large group there is excellent. Even I might be able to go there. I know how to fish that lake too (did so about 25-30 days) I usually fished it one day on my way in to Edith and one day on my way out of Edith. One time I hiked all the way out from Edith but that wasn't any fun. It was ALWAYS a pleasure to fish Laurel so I nearly always stopped there for the afternoon and fished it.
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Re: 2015 Group Trip ?

Postby AlmostThere » Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:36 pm

you cannot have large groups of people meeting in the wilderness in a single place. The group size for any backpacking group is 15 in the parks and any of the wilderness areas. boy Scouts are routinely disregarding this and taking multiple permits in the same wilderness area and forming huge groups around a single lake. this pisses off rangers trying to rehab overused sites....


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Re: 2015 Group Trip ?

Postby giantbrookie » Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:46 pm

SSSdave wrote:Yeah thought about those and some other SR120 destinations in Yosemite. Superb in all but one category. Fishing enthusiasts would have little to do. And wilderness permits for those very popular destinations would face quota issues.

The fishing prospects in the 120 corridor are actually way better than one would think, especially for some proximal destinations south of the Highway. Let's just say that the old "Land of the Giant Brookies" north of I80 is now fishless but some of the 120 lakes make very good substitutes.

The quota issue is probably an issue for some of these destinations but there are some creative entry point and destination combos that work (but keeping below the group size limit overall). In addition, this area has flexibility as a starting point for folks that may wish to make it part of a longer trip either going in or out.

I also like Cross Country's idea of Laurel Lake, which is also the doorstep to destinations deeper in the backcountry as the Bermuda Triangle (ie Edyth, Bearup, et al.), Vernon, Branigan, and upper Falls Creek and beyond.

For 'central' car camping meeting spots, Yosemite (120) is not so good, but there are some good choices N and S of the park that are nicely "central" for the High Sierra. Perhaps the most versatile locations are campgrounds along the Kaiser Pass Road from Kaiser Pass to the Florence L., Edison L. area because these allow takeoff or return from a very wide variety of backcountry destinations. There are campgrounds that would be useful in the Courtright Res./Wishon area as well, which are also good kickoff or return points, although the range of potential destinations is not as large as for the Edison-Florence area. There are also nice primitive camping spots on the west flank that can be much nicer than designated campgrounds. One area that is particularly outstanding is on big flat-topped spurs on the road to Big Meadow (kickoff points such as Jennie Lakes/Rowell Meadow/Marvin Pass etc.). Those spots are gorgeous and once accommodated 200+ folks for an FOP trip in 2004 (don't worry, the FOP had porta potties, and we left the place cleaner than it was on arrival). North of the Yosemite, there are some campgrounds of 108, but Leavitt Lake may be the best car camp destination (high clearance vehicle needed) along this corridor. That one doesn't have quite as much flexibility as a starting or ending point, but it is one of the premier gateways to Emigrant Wilderness.
Since my fishing (etc.) website is still down, you can be distracted by geology stuff at: http://www.fresnostate.edu/csm/ees/facu ... ayshi.html
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Re: 2015 Group Trip ?

Postby SSSdave » Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:07 pm

Cross Country wrote:If you want to have a place that is only one day hike and still good fishing I suggest Laurel Lake out of Hetch Hetchy. Also the camping possibilities for a large group there is excellent. Even I might be able to go there. I know how to fish that lake too (did so about 25-30 days) I usually fished it one day on my way in to Edith and one day on my way out of Edith. One time I hiked all the way out from Edith but that wasn't any fun. It was ALWAYS a pleasure to fish Laurel so I nearly always stopped there for the afternoon and fished it.


Laurel Lake was the destination of my first backpacking trip. Lots of bear stories over those early years in that section of the park. The fishing there for real rainbow trout can certainly be superb in June though like other lower mid forest elevation lakes, trout go into a stupor by mid summer. The hike in is moderately strenuous at 2900 feet up vertical 8.5 miles. Permits require a face to face ranger station on the hike in day so a mid morning start. No peakbagging and exploring limited to maybe dropping into Eleanor Creek canyon. Landscape photography weak though usual intimate nature is about.

Another mid forest elevation choice in that zone has as good rainbow fishing but a much easier hike in out...Kibbie Lake at less than 4 miles. Camping for a large group is a no brainer with significant granite sand glaciated flats on the north side. Mid June nice wildflowers all about. Such timing would not get in the way with member's mid summer season plans. Permits are easy phone call to Stanislaus NF with night box pick-up. Even an easy night hike in. Would work well at 3 days thus Friday thru Sunday. Peakbaggers would be out of luck but could join terrain explorers on either a day hike bushwhack around the big lake or try the tricky route up to Many Island. Photography not spectacular though enough to keep someone busy on more intimate landscapes and nature a couple days.
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Re: 2015 Group Trip ?

Postby SSSdave » Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:41 pm

The most central locations are going to be in either Sierra NF or Inyo NF. Thus some trail quota information:

Trail quotas for Inyo National Forest wilderness area trailheads:

http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOC ... 143453.pdf

Trail quotas for Sierra National Forest wilderness area trailheads:

http://www.fs.usda.gov/detailfull/sierr ... width=full

Any destination with a small quota is obviously not going to work. The reservable quota is of course appropriate for a larger group say of a dozen people. One could consider filling quotas on consecutive days to allow more people to meet up though that does not mean everyone camping in the same spot but rather in easy walking vicinity. Obviously would need to reserve dates well in advance and that means probably by early May before the general population gets into their summer vacation mode.

I have more ideas for destinations than on my original post as was hoping others would chime in versus my making the thorough list I could. So another good one for 4 or 5 days one day in and out, would be large deep Duck Lake out of the Coldwater Campground in the Mammoth Lakes basin. This person has never actually been there though have well researched it over years. A heavily used trailhead with a high reservable quota of 18 plus 12 walk-ups. Just 5 miles maybe 1700 feet vertical, all High Sierra country. Good destination for all types of enthusiasts and notably for fishermen some nicely large trout. Reasonable distance from both north and south areas of the state. Given its sunny location despite altitude, would work well for early July thus not interfere with prime summer season of mid July thru mid August.
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Re: 2015 Group Trip ?

Postby rlown » Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:52 pm

A nice thread with various options. Dave, are you organizing such a trip?

Russ
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Re: 2015 Group Trip ?

Postby SSSdave » Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:24 pm

rlown wrote:A nice thread with various options. Dave, are you organizing such a trip?

Russ


Nope :)

Just something I thought is worth kicking around now that we are in the off season. I do enjoy the notion of meeting up with others in the outdoors so don't mind being a catalyst. And I am rather thorough organizing and planning so maybe that has value.

I think the board has enough mass to bring people together in the backcountry in different ways than just what I've leaned towards here and it is nice we can each make inputs in this Internet era. Knowing what each of us has some interest in or not, putting out some ideas and opinions, has value at this stage in moving towards what is possible and how we might go about it. Heck a few of our high mileage long distance types could even end up on their own small group trip out to the remote eastern Kaweah basin.

The nice thing with all our experienced members is there really isn't a whole lot one needs to do in the way of organizing beyond making information available on the site and consensus of those who have interest to how whatever will happen. Each of us is quite capable of meeting up into a larger group as a bunch of independent solo's or small groups.
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