crazy for thinking I can pack less than 20 lbs for 4 days?

[AlmostThere]

A shovel of some kind is a mandate of that campfire permit you carry.

[markskor]

Confused, as usual -
(BTW, Also never been asked about carrying a trowel,
So I don't.)
But, if now mandated - (really?), especially for obtaining a campfire permit,
If no campfire intended, do I still need a trowel?
Why do I need a trowel to make a campfire?
and, what does a "a shovel of some kind" mean?

[rlown]

on the Trowel thinggy:

Soap and Human Waste
Fish and soapy water do not mix. Please wash your dishes on shore in a pot of water and then dump the water on the ground far from any lake or stream. You can take baths without polluting as well.
Bury human waste with the heel of your boot, a shovel, or a trowel. Dig a hole five of six inches into the humus layer at least 100 feet from the water. Afterwards, cover the hole and microorganisms will decompose the waste.
If you are in a large group, dig a long but shallow latrine. Remember to fill it in before you leave.

From http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/inyo/lear ... rdb5182515" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now i understand that as part as a Campfire permit, you are required to carry a mechanism to put out the fire. I like to call that my 2 quart aluminum pot. In 4 different wilderness permit documentations that i keep, there is no mention of trowel, above or below fireline. And as most of my trips are above "fireline", not gonna carry one So..

Doesn't mean you can't carry one if you wish.

[maverick]

http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/sequoia/p ... ev3_059516" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"When you sign the permit you agree to the following:

-Have a shovel available at the campfire site for preparing and extinguishing campfires."

[rlown]

so, you're saying it depends on where you go..

[balzaccom]

[quote="rlown"]wow. a Titanium trowel. 50 buxx as well. um, no. I'd spend that on a TI frying pan instead.

quote]


I think we need to look into this as a multipurpose TI tool. Both frying pan and trowel!1

[Tom_H]

$39 + $7 Shipping 0.5 oz.

http://suluk46.com/products%20%20-%20P1 ... rowel.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Rockchucker]

This is what I carry

[markskor]

Ah, a Trowel conundrum -
"....campfire, charcoal barbeuce, or use a gas stove or gas lantern. The permit is your agreement to follow the campfire restrictions and regulations in effect... it may be used in any National Forest in California." - "Have a shovel available at the campfire site for preparing and extinguishing campfires."

These shovel "terms" were found nowhere else except in conjunction with obtaining a campfire permit, and at that, "having a shovel" is mandated only in the National Forests of California.
Is a trowel considered a shovel? Why?
Doesn't a Wilderness Permit (no mention found there in, about shovels and/or trowels) trump a Campfire Permit...What happens if you are crossing over from a NP -> National Forest?

However, looked more and did not find any mention of a trowel mandate clause...It could be there though? Where...?
If there, does this trowel mandate clause extend to National Forests if crossing back into National Parks?...Yosemite and SEKI?
Will the rules be subjective if someone is just passing through? What about thru hikers (PCT &JMT)...much like their having to carry/not carry bear cans depending?

[rlown]

I think that's Markskor's missing oatmeal spoon, rockchucker!

I still stick to my point. you don't get a LOT of time out there. be comfortable, don't have to spend that much, and have a good time. why would the goal be light other than enjoyment?