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I STOPPED HIKING THE PCT BECAUSE OF TOXIC MA

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Re: I STOPPED HIKING THE PCT BECAUSE OF TOXIC MA

Postby Cross Country » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:14 pm

I agree
+3



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Re: I STOPPED HIKING THE PCT BECAUSE OF TOXIC MA

Postby rightstar76 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:26 am

Couldn't agree more. +4 :thumbsup:
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Re: I STOPPED HIKING THE PCT BECAUSE OF TOXIC MA

Postby mrphil » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:30 am

We really have largely gone in circles here, but it's also been one of the more interesting and passionate threads on the forum. That's not just my opinion, the page count and level of participation bears it out. I see Eric's point, and agree, but as much as it's raised some hackles and become contentious at times, that surely didn't do much to stop people from expressing their thoughts on the subject(s). Chalk it up to us all learning something, therefore, even though we didn't always agree or reach any consensus, we gained by it.
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Re: I STOPPED HIKING THE PCT BECAUSE OF TOXIC MA

Postby John Harper » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:47 am

mrphil wrote:We really have largely gone in circles here, but it's also been one of the more interesting and passionate threads on the forum. That's not just my opinion, the page count and level of participation bears it out. I see Eric's point, and agree, but as much as it's raised some hackles and become contentious at times, that surely didn't do much to stop people from expressing their thoughts on the subject(s). Chalk it up to us all learning something, therefore, even though we didn't always agree or reach any consensus, we gained by it.


Time for a group hug, orange slices, and juice boxes for all!

John
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Re: I STOPPED HIKING THE PCT BECAUSE OF TOXIC MA

Postby mrphil » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:29 am

John Harper wrote:Time for a group hug, orange slices, and juice boxes for all!


let's all take a nap and try to remember to use our quiet voices.
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Re: I STOPPED HIKING THE PCT BECAUSE OF TOXIC MA

Postby longri » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:28 am

It seems a consensus has been achieved. That is, the majority of people don't want to talk about it here for a variety of reasons.

In the short term the problems are not so bad. It's true that to walk the JMT in 2018 you pretty much need to hire a lawyer to get a permit. Otherwise wilderness access is that hard and crowding issues are not that bad. But if one projects forward far enough the situation might not be satisfactory to most here. I think that's what Hobbes was getting at, the likely future scenario.

I'm a pessimist. I expect access to become harder and harder, the environment to degrade further, and the climate to continue to change in ways we view as negative. I think of a trip up the V Notch couloir as a late season ice climb a little over 15 years ago. That's no longer possible as the ice is gone. I think of all the dead and dying trees and the giant fires we've had. And I think of passing ~200 people on the JMT in a single day a couple of years ago. For me these are all signs that are difficult to ignore.
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Re: I STOPPED HIKING THE PCT BECAUSE OF TOXIC MA

Postby Eiprahs » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:53 am

REQUIEM FOR A THREAD

Dear HST:

This thread has been provocative. Some really great questions have been asked. But somehow the discussion skirts these questions, leaving me, and, judging from recent posts, others, unsatisfied. But I don’t see the discussion as circular—but more a spiral, where, informed by other’s comments, we gain a different perspective each time around.

I have enjoyed reading your contributions.

“Keep it real, brother!”


Rock Formation, Queen’s Garden Trail, Bryce Canyon NP, Nov, 2017.

Image

Edit 1: Corrected spelling of Requiem. Sorry Amadeus.
Last edited by Eiprahs on Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I STOPPED HIKING THE PCT BECAUSE OF TOXIC MA

Postby AlmostThere » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:14 pm

longri wrote:It's true that to walk the JMT in 2018 you pretty much need to hire a lawyer to get a permit. Otherwise wilderness access is that hard and crowding issues are not that bad.


What it requires is thinking out of the box and realizing that you don't have to start at either end. I met a couple of gentlemen while sawing trees out of the trail between Florence Lake and MTR who were starting at Florence. Twice. Once to walk north, once to walk south to Whitney.

The answers to all of the concerns are similar -- stop thinking inside your personal box. Start asking questions and educating people. Start conversations instead of sticking your head in the sand and insisting reality is fixed. Things can change, but only with the right questions. Not who to blame, or where it's going from here based on biased and fixed thinking. But by asking questions that are pushing you outside your box.

I know, because I have been working with the forest service, that the regulations and the endless bureaucracy can be daunting and restrictive. I know, because I work with trail crew and have worked in the past with the Sheriff's office and within the county bureaucracy, how hide bound and set in their ways people can get, also how intractable and inflexible bureaucrats can be. But I also know there is a way through that all to some better, balanced way of thinking to get access to wilderness for the public facilitated while serving the law of the bureaucracy.

If you just said it can't be done, you're doing your part to perpetuate the real problem.

I'm not here a lot any more and I'm not participating a lot any more, because I decided a shift was required and these are times that call for more consideration and less overreaction. The only real change I can immediately make is with myself, and once I started that process, the world changes - or rather, the perspective changes. Being inflexible serves no purpose. Shaking off old habitual ways of thinking helps. Asking better questions helps.
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Re: I STOPPED HIKING THE PCT BECAUSE OF TOXIC MA

Postby longri » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:51 pm

AlmostThere wrote:What it requires is thinking out of the box and realizing that you don't have to start at either end.


I understand all the loopholes for walking the JMT. You missed my point. A little over twenty-five years ago I drove to Yosemite Valley on a summer day, went to the wilderness office in the middle of the afternoon, and got a permit to walk the JMT. You can't do that today. You'll probably never be able to do that again. A little over fifteen years ago I climbed the V Notch as a fat ice climb. You'll never be able to do that again.

There are things we can do and I'm not suggesting we throw our hands up in the air. But some things will be lost no matter what we do.
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Re: I STOPPED HIKING THE PCT BECAUSE OF TOXIC MA

Postby John Harper » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:52 pm

mrphil wrote:
John Harper wrote:Time for a group hug, orange slices, and juice boxes for all!


let's all take a nap and try to remember to use our quiet voices.


And remember to use "golden language" when speaking to others.

John
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